How do Tesla cameras self clean?

[JohnSnowNW]

It doesn't do FSD either. What's your point?

What is yours?

 

[Skotty]

For FSD to work the cameras must have some way to clean themselves. It's clearly no good if your car gets splashed with mud or simple build up of dust/soot and can't self drive any more, stranding it far from where you are and without any means to recover.

Obviously the front camera has the windscreen wipers. What about the others, how do they recover from dirt?

They don't. At best, they stay somewhat clean due to good placement. Passenger has to wipe them off if they get dirty, which is good enough. Car driving itself with no passenger is still a George Jetson Star Trek fantasy, so no need to worry about that yet.

 

[banned-66611]

What is yours?

They fitted those cameras for a reason, and now your are claiming that FSD will work without them.

Extraordinary claims...

 

[banned-66611]

They don't. At best, they stay somewhat clean due to good placement. Passenger has to wipe them off if they get dirty, which is good enough. Car driving itself with no passenger is still a George Jetson Star Trek fantasy, so no need to worry about that yet.

They already sold FSD with summon from the other side of the country. They have to deliver that functionality now.

 

[JohnSnowNW]

They fitted those cameras for a reason, and now your are claiming that FSD will work without them.

Extraordinary claims...

I believe I claimed that partial functionality could be available without them. Which seems entirely reasonable...

 

[Sambas]

Actually clean rear camera is not only required for FSD but also for the enhanced autopilot. According to Tesla’s EAP description, the car self-park when near a parking spot and be summoned to and from your garage. Well, the should add weather permitting!

 

[Skotty]

They already sold FSD with summon from the other side of the country. They have to deliver that functionality now.

That's just pillow talk, baby.

 

[Christine69420]

I have one question about robotaxi I can't find an answer to. I live in Norway and we have weather. In the winter the autopilot often aborts because cameras and sensors are covered in snow and dirt. And I have to park the car, get out, clean the camera lenses and the front bumper, get back in. Then the AP will work again - but often only for 5 minutes.

How will robotaxi work here? Only in the summer and not when it's raining? That would seriously limit the robotaxi usefullness. And if Tesla stopped selling to customers and used all cars as robotaxis then what? No more Teslas for me?

This is ofcourse a problem for all self driving technologies.

 

[diplomat33]

How will robotaxi work here? Only in the summer and not when it's raining? That would seriously limit the robotaxi usefullness. And if Tesla stopped selling to customers and used all cars as robotaxis then what? No more Teslas for me?

The lack of self-cleaning means that Tesla's self-driving won't work when the cameras get too dirty or obscured unless a person gets out and cleans them. So Tesla robotaxis would be L4 autonomy, since they would be limited to certain conditions.

This is ofcourse a problem for all self driving technologies.

Actually some self-driving cars have self-clearing sensors. Ford is working on it:
Self-Driving Bugaloo: How Ford Is Keeping Autonomous Car Sensors Squeaky Clean

 

[LowlyOilBurner]

I live south of Buffalo, NY we get plenty of winter weather. Will Autopilot totally disable if the side/repeater cams are soiled, or will you still have lane keeping (basic Autopilot functionality) via the forward facing cams?

 

[Christine69420]

The lack of self-cleaning means that Tesla's self-driving won't work when the cameras get too dirty or obscured unless a person gets out and cleans them. So Tesla robotaxis would be L4 autonomy, since they would be limited to certain conditions.

Thank you - I've read up on autonomy levels.

So for robotaxi to work well it has to park on bad weather days - or have a person onboard who can clean sensors and assist. This person could be the passenger - but only if the passenger is up for it and isn't disabled or have other health issues. Then a dedicated assistant driver will be needed.

Or - sensor cleaning equipment can be added like the one Ford uses.

Because if not then the car might panic and stop on motorways or anywhere.

 

[diplomat33]

Thank you - I've read up on autonomy levels.

So for robotaxi to work well it has to park on bad weather days - or have a person onboard who can clean sensors and assist. This person could be the passenger - but only if the passenger is up for it and isn't disabled or have other health issues. Then a dedicated assistant driver will be needed.

Or - sensor cleaning equipment can be added like the one Ford uses.

Because if not then the car might panic and stop on motorways or anywhere.

Yes, L4 robotaxis would have to be programmed to pull over safely to the side of the road and wait if they detect a problem that prevents them from safely self-driving.

In nutshell the autonomy levels are as follows:

L1 = driver assist that can only do one thing like lane keeping OR adaptive cruise control and is not self-driving. Human is still driving when system is on.

L2 = driver assist that can do BOTH lane keeping AND adaptive cruise control but is not self-driving. Human is still driving when system is on. Tesla is currently L2.

L3 = full self-driving when it is on but human is required. Human may be asked to intervene in certain situations or conditions. Tesla's so-called "feature complete" will probably be L3.

L4 = full self-driving when it is on but only in certain situations or conditions. Human is not required when the system is on. When Tesla improves the FSD software to the point where driver supervision is not required anymore, FSD will probably become L4.

L5 = full self-driving in every situation and every condition. Human is never required. Tesla hopes for L5 but questions remain if it is possible due to issues like self-cleaning and insufficient hardware.

 

[Christine69420]

L5 = full self-driving in every situation and every condition. Human is never required. Tesla hopes for L5 but questions remain if it is possible due to issues like self-cleaning and insufficient hardware.

One possibility would be robotaxi rollout in areas where the climate allows for it. Perhaps combined with some sort of human assists on bad weather forecasts. Or simply park the cars those days. And then develop better self cleaning sensors for newer cars.

 

[Bladerskb]

L3 = full self-driving when it is on but human is required. Human may be asked to intervene in certain situations or conditions. Tesla's so-called "feature complete" will probably be L3.

L3 isn't about adding more feature. Its about NOT requiring the driver to pay attention to the road.
"FSD feature complete" won't be L3 just as the system below that handles traffic light/stop signs won't be L3 when it releases.

 

[diplomat33]

L3 isn't about adding more feature. Its about NOT requiring the driver to pay attention to the road.

Who said anything about just adding more features? But if Tesla's "feature complete" is an autonomous driving system that can handle most driving situations but may ask the driver to intervene in certain conditions, I would think that could be classified as a L3. I said "probably" because I am not sure.

"FSD feature complete" won't be L3 just as the system below that handles traffic light/stop signs won't be L3 when it releases.

The video demonstrates a traffic light response feature and says the car is L2. So I am not sure where you are getting the L3 from unless you are trying to take a dig at Tesla that "feature complete" will just be adding traffic light response. But surely you know that is not what "feature complete" is.

 

[Bladerskb]

Who said anything about just adding more features? But if Tesla's "feature complete" is an autonomous driving system that can handle most driving situations but may ask the driver to intervene in certain conditions, I would think that could be classified as a L3. I said "probably" because I am not sure.

No it isn't and that's my point. L3 has nothing to do with the amount of features or whether a car can handle some, most or all driving situations.

It only has to do with whether the driver is required to PAY ATTENTION or not according to the SAE. We have been through this 1,000 times. How is this even up to debate again?

L2 - Hands off
L3 - Eyes off (can look away, text, watch video, read book)
L4 - Mind off (can go to sleep)

 

[electronblue]

Who said anything about just adding more features? But if Tesla's "feature complete" is an autonomous driving system that can handle most driving situations but may ask the driver to intervene in certain conditions, I would think that could be classified as a L3. I said "probably" because I am not sure.

Funny how Tesla’s ”Level 5 no geofecne feature complete” turned suddenly to Level 3 of all levels, the one Tesla rarely (ever?) mentions? One of these days I must try to understand the mental gymnastics you go through to excuse Tesla.

That said, I guarantee you, if Tesla’s end of 2019 ”Level 5 no geofence feature complete” means what you think it means, it will be Level 2. Not Level 3. Level 3 means you can look away and can be asked for action only after a certain time has passed.

So let’s hope (dream?) it actually is a Level 5 prototype, not a Level 2 driver’s aid. Because Level 3 it won’t be.

 

[David29]

I'm not sure if this thread is about complaing, more about wondering?

A lot of people indeed wonder how fully autonomous cars will handle cleaning of sensors. I mean, Elon's Summon from the other side of the country idea...

Speaking of which, we shouldn't forget that even the front radar as a bit of question mark too even in light snow, if suitable weather strikes... AP2 - Snow radar failure

And maybe in rain, too. I was driving home from a dinner out on Thursday evening, with my AP1 engaged, when it suddenly quit and said Autopilot was temporarily unavailable. i tried to use cruise control alone, which uses only the radar, but the system would not engage. So, my guess is that dirt thrown up from the road may have obstructed the radar. On my 2015, the radar is fairly low and recessed, and I know it was moved up a bit higher in the later cars without the nosecone. There may be 8 cameras, but there is only one radar, and without it, there is no AP functionality. Maybe there will be a need for a washer and/or wiper over the radar unit for FSD to be fully available in all weather conditions. Otherwise, all it takes is some snow or ise (or even one stray leaf) to stick to the nose and the radar will be disabled....

 

[diplomat33]

Funny how Tesla’s ”Level 5 no geofecne feature complete” turned suddenly to Level 3 of all levels, the one Tesla rarely (ever?) mentions? One of these days I must try to understand the mental gymnastics you go through to excuse Tesla.

There is no mental gymnastics, I assure you. I am not excusing Tesla of anything. I said "probably". I was just offering my guesses. I was thinking that since FC will be autonomous with driver supervision that it might qualify as L3, especially since the next stage of FC when driver supervision is removed would most likely be L4. But clearly, I was wrong. I should be more careful when talking about the levels of autonomy. The fact is that we don't know what level of autonomy FC. It is all mostly guesses at this point.

 

[David29]

And maybe in rain, too. I was driving home from a dinner out on Thursday evening, with my AP1 engaged, when it suddenly quit and said Autopilot was temporarily unavailable. i tried to use cruise control alone, which uses only the radar, but the system would not engage. So, my guess is that dirt thrown up from the road may have obstructed the radar. On my 2015, the radar is fairly low and recessed, and I know it was moved up a bit higher in the later cars without the nosecone. There may be 8 cameras, but there is only one radar, and without it, there is no AP functionality. Maybe there will be a need for a washer and/or wiper over the radar unit for FSD to be fully available in all weather conditions. Otherwise, all it takes is some snow or ise (or even one stray leaf) to stick to the nose and the radar will be disabled....

I should have mentioned that it was indeed a leaf (oak, I think) that had blocked the radar. Because of the way the pre-facelift cars have the radar recessed in a rectangular depression in the nose, it is fairly easy for stuff to get stuck there.