Camera POV - Mobileyes SuperVision requirements on their partner Zeekr

[scottf200]

Via: Mobileye CES talk (see bottom of this post)
A pretty interesting graphic of the camera placement and degrees of visibility (FOV) of Mobileyes SuperVision requirements on their partner Zeekr.

- Of note: front camera (2 vs 3), Side Front Camera on mirror vs B-pillar.
- "7 long range cameras at 8 MP each" 47:55 seconds into video.
- Side cameras: 100 degree vs Tesla at 80 or 60 degree.
- Parking: 3 cameras at 195 degrees 'down low'. (obvious benefit is when things moved in those areas after car is parked and shut off)

Aside: Zeekr with Mobileye SuperVision and a Tesla with HW3 FSD do the same routes in different cities.

https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/features/zeekr-automotive-coming-to-america

Tesla:

Undocumented – TeslaTap​

teslatap.com

Mobileye CES talk:

IMO, it was super interesting.

Things I loved:

Mobileye defined consumer based "levels of autonomy" and ODD.
They showed us the exact sensors, ODD, compute etc of all their AV products.
They have a path to scale from consumer to robotaxi. They have a path to scale ODD.
They explained how they validate safety and what their safety goal is.
They showed some good examples of SuperVision handling difficult cases.
They have clear business model and timeline for both consumer cars and robotaxis.
Redundancy in sensors

 

[ThomasD]

What will be length of responsibility and who will be held accountable for this hardware and software on vehicles? Would Mobile Eye be held accountable as long as the car is on the road? 10 years 20 years?. If a 12 year old car with all this equipment causes an accident in autonomous mode due to a failure in the hardware or software who is responsible? The Takata Airbag recall/lawsuit involved newer cars as well as cars that were well out of warranty.

 

[scottf200]

What will be length of responsibility and who will be held accountable for this hardware and software on vehicles? 10 years 20 years?. If a 8 year old car with all this equipment causes an accident in autonomous mode due to a failure in the hardware or software who is responsible? The Takata Airbag recall/lawsuit involved newer cars as well as cars that were well out of warranty.

That is a completely different topic than the camera POV and degrees topic I started. Maybe start a new thread?

Tesla puts all onus on the driver when they click the accept AP | FSD button initial opt-in.
As well, the drivers is listed as responsible in all 6 of 7 of Mobileye portfolios (see post below).

Autonomous Car Progress

. It just makes sense for them to leverage Google Maps and Waymo HD Map technology to provide HD Maps for 3rd party ADAS and higher vehicles. HD Mapping is a scalable business. Definitely. It makes perfect business sense for Google.

teslamotorsclub.com

UPDATE: Below via Mobileye SuperVision™ | The Bridge from ADAS to Consumer AVs
What Is Mobileye SuperVision™?
Mobileye SuperVision™ is the most advanced driver-assist system on the market, providing “hands-off” navigation capabilities of an autonomous vehicle and designed to handle standard driving functions on all regular road types, while still always requiring the driver’s full attention and eyes on the road.

 

[diplomat33]

What will be length of responsibility and who will be held accountable for this hardware and software on vehicles? 10 years 20 years?. If a 8 year old car with all this equipment causes an accident in autonomous mode due to a failure in the hardware or software who is responsible? The Takata Airbag recall/lawsuit involved newer cars as well as cars that were well out of warranty.

These cars have Mobileye's SuperVision which is L2 and requires the human driver to keep their eyes on the road. It is not considered autonomous. I think the driver would be responsible just like any L2 system since they are considered the driver.

 

[diplomat33]

Via: Mobileye CES talk (see bottom of this post)
A pretty interesting graphic of the camera placement and degrees of visibility (FOV) of Mobileyes SuperVision requirements on their partner Zeekr.

- Of note: front camera (2 vs 3), Side Front Camera on mirror vs B-pillar.
- "7 long range cameras at 8 MP each" 47:55 seconds into video.
- Side cameras: 100 degree vs Tesla at 80 or 60 degree.
- Parking: 3 cameras at 195 degrees 'down low'. (obvious benefit is when things moved in those areas after car is parked and shut off)

Aside: Zeekr with Mobileye SuperVision and a Tesla with HW3 FSD do the same routes in different cities.

https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/features/zeekr-automotive-coming-to-america

Tesla:

Undocumented – TeslaTap​

teslatap.com

Thanks for sharing.

I like how Mobileye has laid out the cameras. IMO, it is a good way to do vision-only. They are higher resolution and have wider field of view. There are also additional parking cameras for those tight spots near the car. I wish Tesla would upgrade the cameras and add some parking cameras.

 

[Dewg]

@ThomasD brings up an interesting question. If a company brings out an L3+ system and then 5 years later goes bankrupt and closes down. Who is responsible for an accident? Would the L3 features be disabled when the company shut down?

 

[scottf200]

I like how Mobileye has laid out the cameras. IMO, it is a good way to do vision-only. They are higher resolution and have wider field of view. There are also additional parking cameras for those tight spots near the car. I wish Tesla would upgrade the cameras and add some parking cameras.

It seems like the side camera being ahead of the

• human head/eyes (better)
• vs the mirror location (best) -- purple arrow below
• vs the B-pillar (good)

give it an advantage at an intersection for looking left or right with obstacles. That is the Chuck UPL test (image below).

Chuck video test: "drive with a second GoPro mounted on the B Pillar showing the viewing angles in addition to the BirdsEye render of oncoming traffic and intersection mapping"​

Both of these are showing B-Pillar angles. Chuck video test: "drive with a second GoPro mounted on the B Pillar showing the viewing angles in addition to the BirdsEye render of oncoming traffic and intersection mapping"

 

[Supcom]

@ThomasD brings up an interesting question. If a company brings out an L3+ system and then 5 years later goes bankrupt and closes down. Who is responsible for an accident? Would the L3 features be disabled when the company shut down?

There could be some alternatives to disabling the L3+ features:

• If the L3+ features are subscription based, then it is likely that another company would purchase the L3+ assets for the subscription income and would assume liability.
• If the L3+ feature licenses are owned by the vehicle owners, then they may lose them. However, if some forward thinking regulations were in place, those who sell these licenses may be required to establish an escrow account to fund liability claims. So long as that account was solvent, the L3+ features would operate.
• L3+ feature license owners (not subscribers) might have the opportunity to purchase their own liability insurance so that those features continue to function. This would, of course, be contingent on insurers willingness to offer a policy. And that would depend on the established loss experience of the L3+ features.
• Owners could potentially form a co-op of sorts and self fund a liability pool to provide their own insurance.

Other than the first option, these possibilities may not be viable in the long term as software maintenance would not be possible. The first option may very well be sustainable for a reasonable time frame since there is an income stream to pay for the maintenance.

Even if companies do not go under, there is a question of what happens to old L3+ vehicles as they become uneconomical to support. Even with a subscription based license, at some point there may not be enough income to warrant the cost to support obsolete platforms. I suspect that one read the fine print of any L3+ vehicle contract if plans are to keep the vehicle for a extended period of time.

 

[Tam]

What will be length of responsibility and who will be held accountable for this hardware and software on vehicles? Would Mobile Eye be held accountable as long as the car is on the road? 10 years 20 years?. If a 12 year old car with all this equipment causes an accident in autonomous mode due to a failure in the hardware or software who is responsible? The Takata Airbag recall/lawsuit involved newer cars as well as cars that were well out of warranty.

Mercedes takes responsibility when its L3 is in use. If it goes bankrupt then all bets are off unless a new company want to take over.

MobilEye supplies the chips/components but those who buy them like GM Supercruise are responsible for the performance.

Unlike Mercedes, MobilEye has never claimed to take on the responsibility. MobilEye doesn't make or sell cars.

It's possible that a car company will limit its responsibility to a new car warranty period only. Or it can set up its own liability fund by charging a usage fee to keep the software/hardware/connectivity current...

 

[Tam]

@ThomasD brings up an interesting question. If a company brings out an L3+ system and then 5 years later goes bankrupt and closes down. Who is responsible for an accident? Would the L3 features be disabled when the company shut down?

It's not different from when FTX goes bankrupt: many won't ever see their investment again.

The trick is to avoid FTX or an L3 company that will go bankrupt.

 

[scottf200]

The thread and topic was created for discussions about

Camera POV / degree / locations​

 

[scottf200]

Via: Mobileye CES talk (see bottom of this post)
A pretty interesting graphic of the camera placement and degrees of visibility (FOV) of Mobileyes SuperVision requirements on their partner Zeekr.

- Of note: front camera (2 vs 3), Side Front Camera on mirror vs B-pillar.
- "7 long range cameras at 8 MP each" 47:55 seconds into video.
- Side cameras: 100 degree vs Tesla at 80 or 60 degree.
- Parking: 3 cameras at 195 degrees 'down low'. (obvious benefit is when things moved in those areas after car is parked and shut off)

Bold/larger chars above and below show these two getting closer to "parity".

Re: Tesla HW4/AP4
According to an internal document from Giga Shanghai shared on Twitter by Chris Zheng (@ChrisZheng001), the forward facing camera will be seeing a change from its current three camera configuration down to two cameras. According to Zheng this is because of the new camera’s pixel density and field of view. We have previously reported that HW4 will use 5 megapixel cameras, which is a significant jump from the current 1.2 megapixels.

 

[diplomat33]

Don't know if this is new info but here is the latest schematic of the SuperVision sensors from the IAA 2023 keynote today.

 

[Tam]

Don't know if this is new info but here is the latest schematic of the SuperVision sensors from the IAA 2023 keynote today.

Does it have LIDAR?

Are these correct meanings:

LRR/MRR=Long Range Radar/Medium Range Radar

SRR=Short Range Radar

 

[diplomat33]

Does it have LIDAR?

Supervision does not have lidar. Only the eyes-off and driverless products (Chauffeur and Drive) have lidar.

Are these correct meanings:

LRR/MRR=Long Range Radar/Medium Range Radar

SRR=Short Range Radar

Yes that is correct. Supervision works on 11 cameras but allows for 1 long/medium range front radar for front redundancy, with the option of short range radar on the corners. I think Mobileye has said that Supervision works with just cameras but some automakers choose to add the radar for extra redundancy.

If you have not watched yet, here is the Mobileye keynote where I got the slide from, where they talk about their products and approach. The keynote is only 18 mn so it is not long.

 

[scottf200]

Does it have LIDAR?

Radar and Lidar shown below on the corresponding category. Blue=EyesON Peach=EyesOFF|No_driver

 

[Tam]

...the Mobileye keynote...

He said there are YouTube clips among the first 1,000 Premium Customers, then increased to 110,000 Zeekr 001 sedans and 20,000 Zeekr 009 mini-vans.

It shows that it could avoid colliding with stationary vehicles blinded around the curve by changing to the next lane.

 

[diplomat33]

He said there are YouTube clips among the first 1,000 Premium Customers, then increased to 110,000 Zeekr 001 sedans and 20,000 Zeekr 009 mini-vans.

It shows that it could avoid colliding with stationary vehicles blinded around the curve by changing to the next lane.

That is taken from this video.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1699014677848572142