How far can a Model S travel on one AA battery?

[Trustno1]

What such experiments demonstrate is the absurdity of "driving without AC, radio and lights to improve range in an EV".
People comprehend what one gallon of fuel means, but they have no clue what one kWh would be. They understand that lights, AC radio run on electricity so it must help to turn them off. Yes, you get 50m more range ...
Driving a bit slower does not occur to anyone as a prudent solution in dire circumstances.

I'll agree that radio and lights does not really matter, but AC and heating can use a fair share of power, depending on the conditions.
I see a significant higher energy usage when it is colder outside. Higher air density also proably has a role to play here.
I'm not sure about cooling energy usage since i live in Norway. I've never experienced extreme heat, so I'm not sure how this will impact range.

 

[jerry33]

I'll agree that radio and lights does not really matter, but AC and heating can use a fair share of power, depending on the conditions.

A/C barely impacts range. Maybe 5% at most.

 

[Trustno1]

A/C barely impacts range. Maybe 5% at most.

Ok, I see more energy usage it gets cold, maybe around 15% when it gets below freezing point.

 

[tom66]

Why not go one further. You could put about 260 x AA in series which could probably drive the car at 1.5-2kW (with a lot of battery heating!) or maybe 10mph. Or use 44 x 9V batteries in series!

There's a YouTube video online somewhere of someone running an old computer off a load of 9V batteries tied in series. A lot of AC power supplies that don't use active PFC will happily accept DC input.

 

[WarpedOne]

but AC and heating can use a fair share of power, depending on the conditions.

Where the main condition is you are driving really slow over level terrain.
Such conditions mean car needs very low power for moving (few KWs) and AC power (~1 kW) or heating (up to 7kW) can become the major power gobblers.
When one drives 'normaly', up to 60 or even above that, cars needs +20kW for maintaining steady speed. Under such driving everything others is not a blip on the radar anymore.
Range could be a problem? Slow down a bit.

 

[wk057]

I'm sure this is both inappropriate and impossible, but I want to use my model S to shift all my home electrical usage to "off-peak". Basically making the car a powerwall.

Feel free to insult my lack of knowledge at your convenience.

Neat idea. At TMC 2015, Tesla staff confirmed during a panel talk that this is not possible because there is no hardware in the car that allows for the serving of power from the battery to any other source than the car itself.

Separately, there is also analysis out there right now that taking into account the battery pack degradation/life expectancy loss and performance lossfrom cycles, you would need electricity to be at $0.24/kWh or above to be worth the wear and tear on your battery. This was done using PowerWall pricing, not Tesla car battery pricing, which is unknown.

I am sure you can Google these forums faster than I can find the source for this analysis. It was quite detailed.

- K

I do believe the person on the Tesla staff panel didn't know what they were talking about. There is certainly hardware in the car that allows access to power from the battery. It's the same hardware that allows supercharging. Once those contactors are closed the charge port has direct access to the battery pack power and it would only need an inverter plugged into the charge port to convert the battery pack power into something useful. The hardware is already there to do this, it's just a matter of having the software (to allow the contactors to close for this purpose) and external hardware (inverter) to make it possible. Definitely something that could be done, but I personally would rather keep the degradation of my car's pack limited to being caused by driving usage and not accelerate it otherwise.

 

[deonb]

Tesla probably doesn't/won't allow that because you could just make daily trips to a SC and then unload at night. Free power indefinitely. Or until you get a nastygram.

Tesla should come up with a business model where you give them money, and they give you a vehicle in return that you actually own and can do with what you want.

 

[Trustno1]

Where the main condition is you are driving really slow over level terrain.
Such conditions mean car needs very low power for moving (few KWs) and AC power (~1 kW) or heating (up to 7kW) can become the major power gobblers.
When one drives 'normaly', up to 60 or even above that, cars needs +20kW for maintaining steady speed. Under such driving everything others is not a blip on the radar anymore.
Range could be a problem? Slow down a bit.

Well, if the driving consumes 20kW and heating 3kW that would be about 15% range reduction. So i would think that is a bit more than a "blip on the radar"

 

[HankLloydRight]

Tesla should come up with a business model where you give them money, and they give you a vehicle in return that you actually own and can do with what you want.

Buying a tesla doesn't give you access to unlimited free energy for non-driving uses.

I would think Tesla could enable this feature or Supercharging, but not both. It's your choice.

 

[wk057]

Slowing down with the HVAC on can actually *lower* range.

Even at highway speeds HVAC can be a significant portion of energy used.

 

[deonb]

Buying a tesla doesn't give you access to unlimited free energy for non-driving uses.

I would think Tesla could enable this feature or Supercharging, but not both. It's your choice.

No it's not. That's my entire point. It's Tesla's choice.

I don't mind in the event that I use my Model S as a UPS that I have to go through e.g. a full home recharge cycle before I can use the Supercharger again, or if I have to send Tesla a $100 check for a charge if I do use a Supercharger during a power outage emergency, or if I'm banned from using the Supercharger for 30 days after I drew power from the Model S. Or any fair mechanism you can come up with really.

But Tesla doesn't give me this choice.

The 300'000 home power outage we had in Seattle over the weekend just underlined again how fragile our grid is in the Pacific Northwest, and I have the most ideal backup supply to guard against that in my garage, but NO! I can't be trusted with it.

 

[WarpedOne]

Well, if the driving consumes 20kW and heating 3kW that would be about 15% range reduction. So i would think that is a bit more than a "blip on the radar"

My point is that heating my improve your range by 15%. Going 10mph slower may improve it by 30%.

 

[Beckler]

I think the real question is how far it would go on a coin or button cell, something like a CR1620. If that's promising then I'm thinking every supercharger would have a big pile of coin cells and a shovel. You'd shovel the frunk full of cells after which an internal sorter stacks them (same as monetary coins) into packs. Once discharged it would also incinerate them for cabin heat.

 

[mknox]

I'm sure this is both inappropriate and impossible, but I want to use my model S to shift all my home electrical usage to "off-peak". Basically making the car a powerwall.

Feel free to insult my lack of knowledge at your convenience.

Not at all. In fact, this is something that electric utilities are looking at very seriously right now. Nissan already has V2H and V2G (that's vehicle-to-home and vehicle-to-grid) prototypes out there.

Personally, I would rather go with something like a PowerWall and not consume my car's finite number of charge/discharge cycles on residential peak shifting.

 

[Xenoilphobe]

Im with you its my freaking car - If I want to use it for emergency power - I should be able to harness it.

No it's not. That's my entire point. It's Tesla's choice.

I don't mind in the event that I use my Model S as a UPS that I have to go through e.g. a full home recharge cycle before I can use the Supercharger again, or if I have to send Tesla a $100 check for a charge if I do use a Supercharger during a power outage emergency, or if I'm banned from using the Supercharger for 30 days after I drew power from the Model S. Or any fair mechanism you can come up with really.

But Tesla doesn't give me this choice.

The 300'000 home power outage we had in Seattle over the weekend just underlined again how fragile our grid is in the Pacific Northwest, and I have the most ideal backup supply to guard against that in my garage, but NO! I can't be trusted with it.

 

[Nigel Tufnel]

I didn't expect to get any encouragement for my "Model S as powerwall" wish, but now...

It seems as if owning a Tesla could at least reduce a need for emergency power generators during brown/blackouts. Even if your AC-out from the vehicle were factory-limited to 15-25 amps or so, it would help provide light and maybe even heat in an emergency. It'd be better than a powerwall because it's mobile. You could help your neighbor(s) or perhaps someone stranded on the road. I'm sure there are lots of us who'd like to plug in their shaver charger, vacuum cleaner, etc. There are areas around my house where I run extension cords for well over 100 feet to use power tools. My car is a potential mobile outlet.

I probably shouldn't have been encouraged. :wink:

 

[seclinton]

Actually, It's all about the cold crank Amps and how much you can put through. At my old company PowerGenix, we tested our NiZn batteries (Sub C) OCV 1.7V in a pack something like a 12V cordless drill. For the military test, we could draw the 100+Amps needed to start the engine of an F22. Of course, it toasted and killed the battery due to the instant discharge and rapid temperature rise. Not suitable in that voltage/form factor for use. But definitely one of the better test cases we tried.

There aint no way 1AA battery would move the car...

 

[HankLloydRight]

There aint no way 1AA battery would move the car...

Not from a stop, obviously.. but what about what I call "marginal" distance? If the car is already moving at say, 50mph, how much further could it go on X number of Y batteries?

 

[seclinton]

an interesting question. What's the min V/A needed to turn the motor under a null regen mode, say close to zero discharge/regen? I'm not up for that mental math exercise

 

[HankLloydRight]

an interesting question. What's the min V/A needed to turn the motor under a null regen mode, say close to zero discharge/regen? I'm not up for that mental math exercise

Neither am I, but I think what the OP (and others are getting at) is that this is more of a thought exercise than a practical one. Given so many Wh in a X size battery, how further ("marginal") can that move the car forward. I don't think people are looking for an actual or "realistic" answer... which is probably 0 feet.