nwdiver
Well-Known Member
It's not about learning, it's about delivery, ranting and prophesizing louder rarely works.
You can't have a difference of opinion if you start with a difference of fact.
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How much electricity does it take to produce a gallon/liter of gas/diesel?
- Thread starter ElectroCat
- Start date
You can't have a difference of opinion if you start with a difference of fact.
She was translating a Swedish saying into English.
In Swedish the saying "Putting someone against the wall" means holding them accountable.
Not Sure
Member
So, you don't like politicians being held accountable?
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
What the heck? We're not going to solve it by continuing to manufacture and buy the same cars we've been using for over 100 years. We might as well choose the car that is not as problematic. Especially since that's the car that costs less to operate, doesn't pollute the air for anyone in the general vicinity, lasts longer, needs less maintenance and is more fun to drive.
What's not to like? Oh, that's right, EV's don't burn gas, LOL!
Not Sure
Member
I don't like incitement to murder.
It certainly reads that way.
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
How direct? 'Cause our addiction to fools fuel also kills a lot of people.
Not Sure
Member
The world has been dependent on fossil fuels since the industrial revolution.
The human population has increased exponentially since then.
Calling for an immediate ban on the use of carbon fuels, grounding the airlines and stopping shipping would be rather inconvenient.
Has Greta popped over to China yet to say "how dare you?"
If you get sick or injured will you refuse to travel in a fossil fueled ambulance?
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
Good thing no one is calling for an immediate ban on fools fuel. What we ARE demanding is a rapid reduction in our pathetic addiction. The US spent >$1B on coal they didn't have to out of pure stupidity. Let's start there. Solar, Wind and EV should be expanding ~10x faster than they are. Why are we STILL manufacturing more POS vehicles that require fools fuel to move? That would be another great step. The consequences of our failure is far worse than any incitement to violence.
There's a HUGE chasm between acting responsibly and the straw man you're peddling.....
Xenoilphobe
Well-Known Member
I call BS, It is very clear what she meant by this idiom, what kid talks like this?
IDIOMS:
up against the wall
in an inextricable situation; in great trouble or difficulty.
The image here is of someone facing execution by a firing squad.
See also: up, wall
Source: up against the wall
IDIOMS:
up against the wall
in an inextricable situation; in great trouble or difficulty.
The image here is of someone facing execution by a firing squad.
See also: up, wall
Source: up against the wall
Not Sure
Member
I call BS, It is very clear what she meant by this idiom, what kid talks like this?
IDIOMS:
up against the wall
in an inextricable situation; in great trouble or difficulty.
The image here is of someone facing execution by a firing squad.
See also: up, wall
Source: up against the wall
ralph142
Member
Chill people. In English yes, but context is important here, we’re talking about a 16 year old speaking a second language ‘upp mot stalla’ or ‘stalla mot vaggen’ ‘is used in a bunch of ways, up against it, or up against the wall, or back to the wall, or ‘held accountable’ works in conversation and I’ve never heard it used in a shoot the mofos sense. Admittedly I’m not fluent and don’t have that many conversations to sample from. She even apologized and explained it.
Xenoilphobe
Well-Known Member
@ Tournal answered the question a while back, I'm with him this thread is dead.
How much electricity does it take to produce a gallon/liter of gas/diesel?
~1.4kWh per liter of gasoline
~1.5KWh per liter of diesel (more energy dense)
Also how do I block the whole Energy, Environment, and Policy forum so I can stay focused on Tesla?
How much electricity does it take to produce a gallon/liter of gas/diesel?
~1.4kWh per liter of gasoline
~1.5KWh per liter of diesel (more energy dense)
Also how do I block the whole Energy, Environment, and Policy forum so I can stay focused on Tesla?
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
We could reduce the population by 90% but if that 10% maintains the same pathetic addiction to fools fuel they're still screwed. It's not hard to kick our addiction to fools fuel. We get more energy from the sun in 1 hour than we could possibly use in a year.... why not use a tiny fraction of it instead of destroying our quality of life by burning hydro-carbons?
We could easily shutdown every coal plant in the country. Pay the miners what they were doing previously to do nothing (which would be safer) have cleaner air and STILL it would save us $$$. Why is that so hard to support? Are you that blinded by ideology?
Assuming that you're serious, I don't know that there's a specific way to block this from the "Recent Posts" feed, which I am guessing you're using. However, what you can do, and what I think is very useful, is to "watch" all forums you're interested in (obviously excluding this one and perhaps some other regional forums) and then use the "Recent Posts (Watched Forums)" tab on New Posts in order to see only those that interest you. That's what I do.
If you need more detail, feel free to PM me and I'll explain how I've done it.
Xenoilphobe
Well-Known Member
I am, it's not a healthy environment, which is kinda funny now that I think about it, because it's about the environment!
I think I figured it out, I did "watch" the parent forum, then "unwatch" appeared. I then depressed that. I'll see if it works.. I usually just check NEW POSTS, lets see if it filters it.
Thanks, by the way, and Happy New Year!
Your calculations are interesting, but they only apply to the US and I'm not actually sure they are complete. I can't tell if they include the various losses and other means of increases to Carbon Intensity. Here is a good paper on this.
Electricity carbon intensity in European Member States: Impacts on GHG emissions of electric vehicles - ScienceDirect
Other countries that are growing their polluting abilities much more quickly than the US, like China, have much higher CO2 emissions per kWh. I had to do some math to dig it out, but it looks like their number is much higher. "120 kWh of electricity per 100 km emits 943 grams of CO2 per km" gives .943 kg/km * 100 km / 120 kWh * 2.2 lb/kg = 1.73 lb/kWh or 0.45 lb/mi and closer to 55% reduction.
China Tackles Climate Change with Electric Buses
So the devil is in the details. While we may be the largest carbon polluter in the world, we aren't the only one and others are much worse than us per mile. India is around the same number as China, the two rising stars in CO2 pollution.
http://cea.nic.in/reports/others/thermal/tpece/cdm_co2/user_guide_ver10.pdf
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
It's false that refineries typically burn their own oil for the electrical part of the refining process. At U.S. refineries, 2/3 of the electricity consumed is purchased from the grid. And most self-generation of electricity at refineries uses waste heat from purchased natural gas that is piped in. Yes, some of it is generated from products derived from the crude oil as well - it depends upon the refinery. The net effect is that ICE cars run on a blend of coal, natural gas, gasoline and heavy oil (with small amounts of solar, wind, hydro and nuclear thrown in there as well).
It all depends upon where the refinery is located and how modern it is. But, on average, 2/3 of the electricity used in refineries nationwide is grid electricity, not generated on-site.The net effect of all this is that oil refineries add a considerable amount of base-load to the nation's electrical grid. This is electricity that is consumed at a fairly constant rate, day or night with slightly higher consumption during the cooler dark hours. This is not an ideal load on the grid!
I've been looking for reliable information on energy consumption during the refining process and I finally found most of what I was looking for in the following document:
https://www.energystar.gov/sites/de..._STAR_Guide_Petroleum_Refineries_20150330.pdf
For electrical consumption at US refineries and the mix of self-generated electricity vs. purchased electricity, please see figure 10 in Chapter 4. Other data in the document will show that a huge amount of electricity is consumed refining oil but even more fossil fuel energy is used to get the job done. Electricity consumption is considerable and yet it is still only a small fraction of the total energy consumed at a refinery which means a gallon of gasoline is REALLY dirty.
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