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How to plan a road trip - how long will it take?

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by ChadS, Feb 9, 2013.

  1. toto_48313

    toto_48313 CAN P #5

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Montreal suburbs
    Thanks to all advices from this post, and about 8,000 miles of experience since Feb, we will try to go from Montreal, Qc to San Francisco, CA starting next week.
    The biggest part of the challenge seems to be between Minneapolis and Salt Lake City ... the way back will be done via Denver and Kansas city which seems to be easier.
    To add a little bit to the challenge, the car is a single charger...

    Here is an overview of the plan...
    [​IMG]

    any advice to make the experience even better are welcome
     
  2. JPP

    JPP Active Member

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    I was in your hometown last week--stayed in a hotel in old Montreal--lovely (except my ear is not attuned to Quebecois). I am in the SF Bay Area (east of SF across the Bay Bridge). if you run into trouble or need local advice/assistance, just PM me here @ TMC.

    Bon voyage!
     
  3. Carguy1

    Carguy1 Member

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    Location:
    Greenwich, CT
    Need help completing road trip

    HELP - HPWC needed. This may not be quite on topic but found no better place (as I'm new to all this) . . . We are traveling from Greenwich, CT to Boone, NC and returning to Greenwich, CT via Raleigh, NC, this Monday July 8th (around noonish) and would love to meet up with a 80 Amp HPWC around Raleigh, NC . . . any suggestions . . . offers? Plug Share mislabeled a fellow MS owner as having one so need to find alternative. Thanks in advance for any help or suggestions.
     
  4. bollar

    bollar Disgruntled Member

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    Southlake, TX
    Give the Tesla Service Center in Raleigh a call. They can probably help.
     
  5. Carguy1

    Carguy1 Member

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    I did and I will stop there tomorrow but was disappointed to find they only have NEMA 14-50 w/ 40AMPs to juice us up. Not quite the HPWC's I was hoping for:confused:. What was going to be a quickish stop and go, will now be a prolonged stop, eat, movie, nap and go. If anyone knows anyone around there please call 203 570-6128 . . . thanks.
     
  6. Cottonwood

    Cottonwood Roadster#433, Model S#S37

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    My regular drive in my Model S is from my home in Pagosa Springs, CO to my second home in Boulder, CO and back. Here are some results of my analysis with the new Supercharger in Silverthorne, CO and the soon to be installed 70A, J1772 in Salida (50 mph). My current stop is at a friends house with 32A or 20 mph charging. I could charge at RV Parks along the way with 50A 14-50 outlets (28 mph), but prefer to stop in Salida, chat with my friend and maybe go into town for lunch or dinner, than to hang out at the picnic table in an RV park.

    This is obsessive trip planning from a pilot, but it interesting results. The Supercharger in Silverthorne decreases my time to drive Pagosa to Boulder by less than an hour (8:23 vs 7:37) with the 20 mph charger, and with a 50 mph charger at Wood's Distillery in Salida, its faster to bypass the Supercharger altogether. The big win for the Supercharger is from Boulder to Pagosa (up 2,600 ft, vs down 2,600 ft), 2:16 faster with the 20 mph charger in Pagosa, and still 10 mins faster even with the 50 mph charger in Salida. The ICE times are the from maps.google.com with a 30 minute comfort break added.

    With a 20 mph charger in Salida, the Supercharger in Silverthorne is a big win. With a 50 mph charger in Salida, the Supercharger does not help on the Pagosa to Boulder run, and is only a 10 minute advantage going Boulder to Pagosa. Besides, what is cooler than topping off the Model S battery at a distillery...

    With the Supercharger in Silverthorne and the 50 mph charger at Wood's Distillery, the MS is almost as fast as the ICE and does not drink any dino juice!










































    Salida Charging Rate 20 mph 50 mph
    Pagosa to Boulder via Silverthorne SC 7:37 7:01
    Pagosa to Boulder, direct 8:23 6:53
    Boulder to Pagosa via Silverthorne SC 7:37 7:19
    Boulder to Pagosa, direct 9:53 7:29
    ICE via Silverthorne 6:52
    ICE, direct 6:23


    Details:

    Drive through Silverthorne, topping off in Salida for 20 mi reserve at Silverthorne arrival

    7114 Pagosa to Salida - Total: 150 mi – about 2 hours 43 mins
    Salida Charging: 1 Hour
    Salida to Silverthorne - Total: 92.7 mi – about 1 hour 50 mins
    Silverthorne Charging: 15 minutes
    Silverthorne to Cherryvale - Total: 78.8 mi – about 1 hour 49 mins

    Grand Total: 322 mi – about 7 hours 37 mins, 7 hours 1 min with 50 mph charger at Wood's Distillery


    Drive direct, topping off in Salida for 20 mi reserve at Cherryvale arrival

    7114 Pagosa to Salida - Total: 150 mi – about 2 hours 43 mins
    Salida Charging: 2 hours 30 mins
    Salida to Cherryvale - Total: 159 mi – about 3 hours 10 mins

    Grand Total: 309 mi – about 8 hours 23 mins, 6 hours, 53 mins with 50 mph charger at Wood's Distillery





    Drive through Silverthorne, topping off in Salida for 20 mi reserve at Pagosa arrival

    Cherryvale to Silverthorne - Total: 78.8 mi – about 1 hour 49 mins
    Silverthorne Charging: 45 mins
    Silverthorne to Salida - Total: 92.7 mi – about 1 hour 50 mins
    Salida Charging: 30 mins
    Salida to 7114 Pagosa - Total: 150 mi – about 2 hours 43 mins

    Grand Total: 322 mi – about 7 hours 37 mins, 7 hours 19 min with 50 mph charger at Wood's Distillery


    Drive direct, topping off in Salida for 20 mi reserve at Pagosa arrival

    Cherryvale to Salida - Total: 159 mi – about 3 hours 10 mins
    Salida Charging: 4 hours
    Salida to 7114 Pagosa - Total: 150 mi – about 2 hours 43 mins

    Grand Total: 309 mi – about 9 hours 53 mins, 7 hours, 29 mins with 50 mph charger at Wood's Distillery
     
  7. stevezzzz

    stevezzzz R;SigS;P85D;SigX;S90D;XP100D;3LR

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    These calculations are very interesting, given that the direct route is, by my estimate, only 17 miles shorter than the route that includes Silverthorne. Still scratching my head over it, but it's late and I should be asleep.
     
  8. arremgee

    arremgee Member

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    Location:
    Chicago
    @Toto_48313 - Do you have a list of what the points are? I'll be driving from Minneapolis to LA the second week of January. Haven't figured out how I'm going to get through South Dakota yet.... among other places.
     
  9. neroden

    neroden Happy Model S Owner

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    Writing from tablet so will keep short.

    If the temperature is below roughly 20 degrees F, Chad's tips are not good enough. I have been getting 500+ wh/mi, which means a range of less than 170 miles. Plan on 150 miles between charges, maximum, in this weather... And that's pushing it. 130 is safer.
     
  10. Enadler

    Enadler Member

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    What speed were you traveling?
     
  11. ChadS

    ChadS Petroleum is for sissies

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    More importantly, what distance did you travel? wh/mi is VERY high to start due to the car warming up the battery at first, but once the battery is warm it drops way down.

    That said, I don't have any experience myself driving in conditions that cold. The best I have is Tesla's numbers on how much of a hit HVAC will take at 15 degrees F (25%).
     
  12. neroden

    neroden Happy Model S Owner

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    #52 neroden, Jan 8, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2014
    I'll try to do a full trip report, but after coming back, doing a fair amount of trial and error to figure out what was causing the problems, the biggest culprits of really bad mileage seem to be very traditional, and would affect gasoline cars too:
    (1) unplowed roads
    (2) slippery roads due to torrential rain

    If I am on dry, cleared roads Chad's rule of thumb seems to work even in very cold weather. But start accumulating snow and gunk in your wheel wells....

    For reference, the temperature was as low as 5 F. The high was 10 F some days.

    Now, the "initial usage" spike is also noticeable. For short hops around town with unplowed roads, a typical wh/mi was 1200 to 1600.

    When I drove for 100 miles the average dropped into the 500-600 range... but remember, this is with gunk accumulating on the wheel wells. Each time I stopped to clean out the wheel wells, the mileage got noticeably better, until I hit the next unplowed segment.

    I also got worse-than-Chad's numbers on the just-above-freezing run through torrential rain from Niagara Falls to Ingersoll.
     
  13. neroden

    neroden Happy Model S Owner

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    Also worth noting: The car was fully loaded, with four people, and luggage filling the frunk, the trunk, and the trunk undercompartment right up to the level of the seatbacks, as well as bags between the rear-seat passengers.

    Regarding speeds, we were on the expressways in Canada (60 mph or lower), on the expressways in most of Michigan (70 mph), and on the back roads in New York (55 mph, sometimes lower). I wasn't about to risk breaking the speed limit.

    In many ways, I did make a worst-case-scenario trip, apart from speed (you could go faster in Texas). Fully loaded car, awful weather, and no Superchargers. It does leave me pretty sure about the capabilities of the car. My range-maximizing tips: Clean those wheel wells off and stay on the best-plowed roads.
     
  14. ChadS

    ChadS Petroleum is for sissies

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    Interesting; more details would be great if you can tease them out. I can definitely see how wheel wells stuffed with gunk could greatly increase consumption. I assumed that on a road trip, friction heat and jolts while driving would take care of enough of the gunk that it wouldn't rub on the tires or anything. But I know snow/ice/temps vary, and while I've never seen it (not that we get much snow of ANY kind here) it could be possible that in some situations the gunk accumulates as fast as it is knocked out, so you have constant friction. Yuk.
     
  15. neroden

    neroden Happy Model S Owner

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    Yep. That was very definitely what was happening (since I got out and checked!)

    For the front wheels, there was even so much gunk accumulated on the suspension that that was grinding against the tires from above. That was very hard to clean out.
     
  16. Zapped

    Zapped Model S - PURE EV

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    I'm planning a trip from Palm Desert up the I-5 to Seattle.

    My question is about the first leg that would be to the Tejon Ranch super charger, 195 miles.
    Net increase in elevation is about 900 ft with total ascent of 12,500 ft and descent of 11,600 ft
    Route Elevation Calculator

    Trying to assess the risk with a 50 mile buffer. (250 mile charge) and some possible head wind out of Palm Springs.
    Has anyone done this leg without stopping to top up on route ?
     
  17. Bugeater

    Bugeater Member

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    Location:
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    Don't know about down there, but just did a trip from near TSLA HQ up to Mendocino. It was 218 miles with the coast range on Hwy 20 in between. We stopped for dinner around half way, a bit before the mountains, and charged for a bit over an hour. Added around 30 miles. We got to our destination with 20 miles left. Our S is a P85 with 21" wheels. I didn't really hypermile except on Hwy 20.
     
  18. ChadS

    ChadS Petroleum is for sissies

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    #58 ChadS, Mar 2, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2014
    It is possible, but those elevation changes are going to cost you. If you go 60mph, temps are warm, there's no rain and no headwinds, you can make it. But there's too much you can't control there, so I wouldn't risk it without at least a plan for a place to charge along the way. Unfortunately there's not a lot of fast charging on I-5 near Tejon Ranch. It would have to be a campground. HERE is one with 50A outlets 35 miles before Tejon Ranch if you find yourself falling short.

    Rather than stress about it and possibly have to charge at 10kW for a while, personally I'd stop at another Supercharger along the way. Hawthorne only adds 21 miles, though of course they are LA miles. (Take 60 and you don't have to decide until Avocado Heights, about halfway there). Going through Barstow instead adds 82 miles (after accounting for cutting back to Tejon Ranch), but over much more open road. It will add time to your trip; but not much given the total distance you are going and to my mind removing stress is worth it.

    My wife and I did Death Valley (going through Barstow, so the total distance would be about exactly the same as your trip) to Seattle again a few weeks ago. Great trip. It will be really easy once you get to that first Supercharger. Have fun!
     
  19. Zapped

    Zapped Model S - PURE EV

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    Thanks for the info.
    To Tejon from Avacado Heights would you continue on 60 to the I-5 thru downtown or would the traffic be better jumping up to the I-10 or 210 ?
    I did make the reverse leg from Tejon to Rancho M on the I-5 -> 210 -> I-10 with 30 miles to spare, but the wind usually blows east to help. Was doing some fairly high speeds though. (70-80)
    From what I've read on TMC the Hawthorne SC can be busy, so the campground option might be more appealing.

    I've charged at Barstow on route to Vegas. Curious on your route through Death Valley, seems a bit out of the way unless you're site seeing.
     
  20. ChadS

    ChadS Petroleum is for sissies

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    Sorry, I'm not familiar enough with the LA roads to suggest what would be best.

    I guess if you go straight there, you might only have to be at the campground for an hour, two at the most. Given the saved miles, and missing LA traffic, that might not be so bad. I'd call the campground first though, make sure they will have a spot available and to see what they'll charge.

    My wife has relatives in Pahrump NV, so we went through there on our way out of Death Valley.
     

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