How to sue Tesla over historical claims

[ambivaldi]

if you are willing to share the "advertising from tesla.com in 2017" to use as support?

@Real_Chameleon

It's still there: https://www.tesla.com/blog/all-tesla-cars-being-produced-now-have-full-self-driving-hardware/
October 19, 2016
"We are excited to announce that, as of today, all Tesla vehicles produced in our factory – including Model 3 – will have the hardware needed for full self-driving capability"

 

[seenhear]

The internet archive is the place to go.

Model S | Tesla

web.archive.org

As can be seen in the URL, that is a snapshot from 2017, September (09), 13th, at 05:36:23 time.
You can move the slider to select a different time.
I captured screen shots from earlier in the year and later in the year from when my car was built, to show that the "promise" was there the whole time.

 

[Real_Chameleon]

The internet archive is the place to go.

Model S | Tesla

web.archive.org

As can be seen in the URL, that is a snapshot from 2017, September (09), 13th, at 05:36:23 time.
You can move the slider to select a different time.
I captured screen shots from earlier in the year and later in the year from when my car was built, to show that the "promise" was there the whole time.

View attachment 1025325

thanks for pointing this out! very helpful

 

[Nouvelle]

This is amazing. I'm in Victoria, Australia and considering doing the same thing over the robot taxi claims. We have pretty strong consumer laws here, and like you, Tesla have ignored all my emails.

 

[Yelobird]

This is amazing. I'm in Victoria, Australia and considering doing the same thing over the robot taxi claims. We have pretty strong consumer laws here, and like you, Tesla have ignored all my emails.

Over Robot taxi’s?? Good luck with that case or finding a lawyer not laugh.

 

[gearchruncher]

An interesting opportunity arises this week for anyone wanting to go after Tesla if your car does not have the hardware needed.

One will note that since 2016, Tesla has said this:

Elon unequivocally states that ALL cars in the USA that are capable are getting it. So if you didn't get it, you car is not capable. This blows a hole in any previous discussions where people argue that just because a car hasn't gotten it yet doesn't mean it isn't capable and maybe will get it in the future. Or that you had to actually BUY FSD to be guaranteed a capable car. So if you don't get it, you can conclude you were sold a car without FSD capability, despite being told the opposite when sold the car.

You can probably even use this to argue for MCU1 to MCU2 if MCU1 is the reason you are told you aren't getting the trial. Anyone that doesn't get the Trial should file a support ticket and ask why, and then if told it's because they don't have the hardware, go to court with that.

(And sure, if you have an AP1 car, you were never told that. But anything after October 2016 said it had the HW)

 

[dbldwn02]

An interesting opportunity arises this week for anyone wanting to go after Tesla if your car does not have the hardware needed.

View attachment 1032856

One will note that since 2016, Tesla has said this:
View attachment 1032857

Elon unequivocally states that ALL cars in the USA that are capable are getting it. So if you didn't get it, you car is not capable. This blows a hole in any previous discussions where people argue that just because a car hasn't gotten it yet doesn't mean it isn't capable and maybe will get it in the future. Or that you had to actually BUY FSD to be guaranteed a capable car. So if you don't get it, you can conclude you were sold a car without FSD capability, despite being told the opposite when sold the car.

You can probably even use this to argue for MCU1 to MCU2 if MCU1 is the reason you are told you aren't getting the trial. Anyone that doesn't get the Trial should file a support ticket and ask why, and then if told it's because they don't have the hardware, go to court with that.

(And sure, if you have an AP1 car, you were never told that. But anything after October 2016 said it had the HW)

Yup. They're making small claims wins even easier with all this verbiage and "wide-releases". I'll probably pull the trigger on the MCU2 upgrade and then do small claims shortly after, showing FSD v12 immediately available.

 

[seenhear]

Yup. They're making small claims wins even easier with all this verbiage and "wide-releases". I'll probably pull the trigger on the MCU2 upgrade and then do small claims shortly after, showing FSD v12 immediately available.

You might try to replicate my experience. Schedule the MCU and FSD computer upgrades, then simply ask them to waive the cost that you are asked to approve, and paste links to and images of their website from the internet archive, showing the statement that the car you bought was sold as having all the necessary hardware. Then to strengthen the argument, copy Elon's recent Xweet stating that everyone with capable cars will get FSD. You paid for a capable car, they moved the goal posts.
I found that my service center people were nice and skilled, but generally lacking knowledge of the history of the hardware here.
You just might get what you want with no cost and without having to go to court. I did.

 

[gearchruncher]

I found that my service center people were nice and skilled, but generally lacking knowledge of the history of the hardware here.
You just might get what you want with no cost and without having to go to court. I did.

For sure worth a try, and you actually do need to ask Tesla for the free upgrade in order to go to court or arbitration. If they say yes, you're good. If they say no, then you have the denial needed to decide what to do next. No harm in trying.

Tesla's policies are all over the place and change every day, but historically they very much had a corporate policy on no free FSD HW upgrades for people that did not outright buy the FSD software. This was not up to the local service center. My local service center manager was the one that told me he didn't agree with the corporate policy but couldn't override it and encouraged me to sue. This was after they had quoted me zero dollars but then the quote got audited in the weeks between making the appt and showing up and they told me it would be $$$ only when I showed up for my appointment.

It would be amazing if a few more people would try in 2024- maybe the Tesla policy has changed in secret.

 

[dbldwn02]

You might try to replicate my experience. Schedule the MCU and FSD computer upgrades, then simply ask them to waive the cost that you are asked to approve, and paste links to and images of their website from the internet archive, showing the statement that the car you bought was sold as having all the necessary hardware. Then to strengthen the argument, copy Elon's recent Xweet stating that everyone with capable cars will get FSD. You paid for a capable car, they moved the goal posts.

For sure worth a try, and you actually do need to ask Tesla for the free upgrade in order to go to court or arbitration. If they say yes, you're good. If they say no, then you have the denial needed to decide what to do next. No harm in trying.

Tesla's policies are all over the place and change every day, but historically they very much had a corporate policy on no free FSD HW upgrades for people that did not outright buy the FSD software. This was not up to the local service center. My local service center manager was the one that told me he didn't agree with the corporate policy but couldn't override it and encouraged me to sue. This was after they had quoted me zero dollars but then the quote got audited in the weeks between making the appt and showing up and they told me it would be $$$ only when I showed up for my appointment.

It would be amazing if a few more people would try in 2024- maybe the Tesla policy has changed in secret.

That's the plan. I'll likely do this in late April or early May. Definitely not signing any NDAs. I want to share with my friends here!

 

[ajit6]

Like most of you would have (in the US), I received a safety recall notice from Tesla early February (NHTSA Recall no: 23V-838) - Autopilot with increased risk of collision

The letter states that "Please check your vehicle is running software version 2023.44.30 or a later release, all of which contain the remedy" and in another section it says "If you believe that Tesla has failed or is unable to remedy this defect without charge or with a reasonable time, you may submit a complaint to the Administrator, NHTSA....."

I received an update 2022.8.10.20 mid-feb but I don't think 2022.8.10.20 is considered a later release than 2023.44.30? Is this worth a complaint to NHTSA to force Tesla to upgrade MCU1 to support the newer 2023 version of FW?

 

[Yelobird]

Like most of you would have (in the US), I received a safety recall notice from Tesla early February (NHTSA Recall no: 23V-838) - Autopilot with increased risk of collision

The letter states that "Please check your vehicle is running software version 2023.44.30 or a later release, all of which contain the remedy" and in another section it says "If you believe that Tesla has failed or is unable to remedy this defect without charge or with a reasonable time, you may submit a complaint to the Administrator, NHTSA....."

I received an update 2022.8.10.20 mid-feb but I don't think 2022.8.10.20 is considered a later release than 2023.44.30? Is this worth a complaint to NHTSA to force Tesla to upgrade MCU1 to support the newer 2023 version of FW?

Highly doubt you received Any update in the 2022.8 area

 

[dbldwn02]

Like most of you would have (in the US), I received a safety recall notice from Tesla early February (NHTSA Recall no: 23V-838) - Autopilot with increased risk of collision

The letter states that "Please check your vehicle is running software version 2023.44.30 or a later release, all of which contain the remedy" and in another section it says "If you believe that Tesla has failed or is unable to remedy this defect without charge or with a reasonable time, you may submit a complaint to the Administrator, NHTSA....."

I received an update 2022.8.10.20 mid-feb but I don't think 2022.8.10.20 is considered a later release than 2023.44.30? Is this worth a complaint to NHTSA to force Tesla to upgrade MCU1 to support the newer 2023 version of FW?

I submitted a complaint. It probably won't do anything but it only took 5 minutes.

 

[canary1023]

hey there! i have seen your thread a while ago and am considering doing this with my car. can you dm me and help me do this? that would be greatly appreciated! (apologies if this reply was unnecessary, i am new to this site)

 

[gearchruncher]

@canary1023 - 95% of what I know is in the very first post. Once you read that, ask away. What is your specific case where you believe you have a claim?

 

[canary1023]

@canary1023 - 95% of what I know is in the very first post. Once you read that, ask away. What is your specific case where you believe you have a claim?

same thing as you, minus the mcu bit because i have a model 3. only thing is i don't know what "cause of action" it would go under (i live in new york so this is what the forms look like) and for the exact amount a hw3 retrofit would cost after tax.

 

[gearchruncher]

only thing is i don't know what "cause of action" it would go under (i live in new york so this is what the forms look like) and for the exact amount a hw3 retrofit would cost after tax.

This would be either breach of contract/warranty, or other. It's false advertising which is a kind of contract.

You need to first ask Tesla for this upgrade for free and get a quote from them. The judge will not look kindly about you showing up in court having not even asked if they would do the upgrade for free because of the reason you are brining to the court. Then if they don't do it, you will have an exact quote.

There are stories of people getting the upgrade at no cost, so for all you know it will just work out. Just send them a request in the app.

FYI, I have a Model X and a Model 3. I sued twice, one for each car.

 

[canary1023]

This would be either breach of contract/warranty, or other. It's false advertising which is a kind of contract.

You need to first ask Tesla for this upgrade for free and get a quote from them. The judge will not look kindly about you showing up in court having not even asked if they would do the upgrade for free because of the reason you are brining to the court. Then if they don't do it, you will have an exact quote.

There are stories of people getting the upgrade at no cost, so for all you know it will just work out. Just send them a request in the app.

FYI, I have a Model X and a Model 3. I sued twice, one for each car.

i have asked it for free twice before, they said "$1k + tax" twice and said it was not free, should i just ask again and specify for an answer to include tax?

 

[gearchruncher]

i have asked it for free twice before, they said "$1k + tax" twice and said it was not free, should i just ask again and specify for an answer to include tax?

If you have it in writing that they will charge you $1K + tax, then you can calculate the tax yourself.
When you requested it, did you give them a reason you believe it should be free?
Make sure you send a request to resolutions@tesla,com like your purchase agreement says to, another place you can show that you tried to resolve this before going to the courts. (they won't respond)

 

[canary1023]

If you have it in writing that they will charge you $1K + tax, then you can calculate the tax yourself.
When you requested it, did you give them a reason you believe it should be free?
Make sure you send a request to resolutions@tesla,com like your purchase agreement says to, another place you can show that you tried to resolve this before going to the courts. (they won't respond)

i actually sent an email to them yesterday, no response yet. would it be a good idea to ask tesla service in the app again, this time saying why it should be free and if they refuse to ask how much it would cost with tax so i know how much to put in the small claims form?