How to sue Tesla over historical claims

[canary1023]

to be clear i did not say why it should be free but i really should have. i just said a lot of people were getting it for free and they said "we don't do that" so it might be worth it to try again.

 

[Vagus]

Looking for some advice from @gearchruncher or anybody else that can help!

2017 Model X owner. Paid for FSD capability when I bought the car but stuck on 2022.8.10.16 (no FSD beta, nor its latest reincarnation of FSD "Supervised"). I've had the HW3 and camera upgrades at no charge, but I'm still on MCU1.

I've tried emailing [email protected] a few times - no response. I've gone through the process of getting a quote for MCU2 from the local SC but unfortunately the information they gave was all over the place and often objectively inaccurate. They told me that 1) I already have FSD and 2) I'm already on the latest firmware "for my configuration". I was able to get them to say that "updating the Infotainment System would be a configuration update and would likely have a more recent firmware version" but nothing more specific. I laid out my argument for why MCU2 should be comped and my request was denied.

Next step is emailing the resolutions "team" rolleyes and then off to small claims court.

Here is a draft email (thanks in part to @dbldwn02 for posting his) which I'd like advice on:

Dear Sir / Madam,

I have not received any updates to the FSD capabilities of my Tesla Model X for over 2 years now. On discussing this problem with my local Tesla Service Center I have been informed that I will need to upgrade the infotainment system in my vehicle from MCU1 to MCU2 in order to receive further updates.

I have always advocated for Tesla's vision and innovative approach to automotive technology as evidenced by becoming an early adopter. When I purchased my vehicle in 2017 the Tesla website clearly stated that "All Tesla vehicles produced in our factory have the hardware needed for full self-driving capability at a safety level substantially greater than that of a human driver." In light of this promise, I additionally purchased access to FSD capability on the understanding that the software and its abilities would progress over time.

While the promise of level 4 or 5 autonomy has yet to be achieved, it has been exciting to experience the progress made in FSD capability - a privilege that I paid for and therefore expect.

During this time, the promise that my vehicle had "the hardware needed for full self-driving capability" turned out to be inaccurate, as the FSD computer and camera suite have both needed to be upgraded. I am grateful that those upgrades were performed at no cost to me - again, as I would expect.

In October 2021 Tesla released a firmware update (FSD beta) that brought substantial improvements to the full self-driving capabilities of its vehicles and progress towards the stated goal of level 4 or 5 autonomy has continued since then. Sadly, however, my car did not receive the 2021 update - nor has it received any of the subsequent updates to FSD capability over what is now two subsequent generations of software.

Once again, the reason that my vehicle has fallen behind on firmware updates and improvement to FSD capability over the past two and a half years is that the infotainment computer needs to be upgraded from MCU1 to MCU2. My local Service Center quoted me $2,250 + tax (=$2,385) to perform this upgrade. Given the promises made when I purchased the vehicle and FSD capability, I requested that the Service Center perform this hardware upgrade at no cost to me, just like the FSD computer and camera upgrade. Sadly, they denied this request.

I am now formally requesting that Tesla honor its original commitment by providing the necessary MCU2 hardware upgrade to my vehicle at no additional cost and allow for continued firmware updates to the FSD capability that I have paid for. This action would not only rectify the current situation but also reinforce Tesla's reputation for customer satisfaction and loyalty.

I trust that Tesla will address this issue promptly. I look forward to a favorable response and resolution that upholds the values and customer commitment that Tesla is known for.

Thank you for your attention to this matter.

Any comments - good or bad?
Is this the correct and logical argument that I should use in small claims court?
When can I start the small claims court process?
Anything else I should be doing or trying in the meantime?

Thanks all!

 

[gearchruncher]

@Vagus -Email to resolutions is too long. Short is way better. They'll never respond, and likely never even read it, so the only point of sending one is so you can show it to the court proving you asked, and making your future court claim very clear. Your story about how you are a supporter of Tesla is pointless. Telsa's legal department doesn't care about you or your history with the brand or how this will reinforce their reputation for customer support, and neither will small claims court. Tesla legal is just going to evaluate the cost of responding vs not (well, and hiding in the corner trying not to get fired by Elon for merely existing). You need a simple DEMAND letter. You're well beyond hoping that asking nicely will get you anything.

Dear Tesla legal department. I have a car that I paid for FSD capability on when I purchased it, and was advertised as having all hardware needed for FSD. However, despite FSD being very publicly released to all "FSD capable cars", my car has not received this software. I have asked my local service center about this, but they have been unable to explain what the issue is. In investigating online, it is clear this is because of the "MCU1" infotainment computer, as others with this computer also do not have FSD. Those with "MCU2" do, so I must conclude this hardware difference is the reason. I am requesting an upgrade to MCU2 upgrade at no cost in order to meet the original claim that the car had all hardware needed. Please respond by May 24th, 2024 or I will pursue action as allowed per the Tesla Motor Vehicle Purchase Agreement.

 

[Vagus]

@gearchruncher: Thanks for the feedback - and for your example email. Very awesome indeed.

Your points are all well taken, though I wasn't expecting to get a response. I do want to get the argument and terminology straight in my head for the next step though. Particularly against the SC line of "you already have FSD" and "you're already on the latest firmware for your configuration".

Does my draft email (which I won't now send) have it straight?

 

[gearchruncher]

Particularly against the SC line of "you already have FSD" and "you're already on the latest firmware for your configuration".

They made your argument for you- "you're already on the latest firmware for your configuration" Well guess what, that latest firmware for that configuration doesn't have FSD, despite 99% of cars having it. They just literally told you that you don't have the HW needed for FSD, despite the car being advertised as having all HW needed, denied a free upgrade, and even quoted a cost for you! Slam dunk. Everything you need to sue.

Do you have this in writing from the service center so you can show it to the court?

 

[Vagus]

I do. But part of their argument is “you already have FSD”. Which leads me to expect to have to explain to a judge the difference between what I have and what’s currently available - and why I feel that I’m entitled to continued updates.

 

[gearchruncher]

What do they mean by "you already have FSD"? Do you actually have it? Does the AP screen in the MCU give you the option to enable some sort of FSD? If not, who cares what the SC says?

If you do and your argument is that you aren't getting updates quickly enough, that's trickier, but then you argue that you clearly don't actually have the HW needed if they have updated every other car 15 times and 3 major, public FSD versions while you got nothing.

Remember, one of two things will happen here:
1) Tesla will not show up in court. In that case, you have a minimal burden of proof. Show the Judge the ad that says your car has all HW needed, then the SC email saying you have the latest SW for "your config" then show them the public firmware trackers and how far behind you are newer hardware versions, and tell them that you tried to work with Tesla and they didn't have a timeline for any updates and/or didn't respond. Tesla won't be there to offer a different story, so you win.

2) Tesla shows up in court, and you get to ask them why your software is so far behind other cars, and when they say "latest for your config" you ask "do you mean that I do not have the latest FSD because my hardware is too old to run the latest builds?" If they say you will eventually get it, ask for a timeframe. I bet the judge doesn't like the answer of "we don't know." Also, don't forget that pre-2019 MCU1 cars were offered FULL L4 driving, so that is what you are owed, so you can ask about the timeframe for that on your current hardware config.

In the end, you're taking this a bit too seriously around perfect, precise language. Small claims is low key. Tesla isn't even likely to show.

 

[Vagus]

That's really helpful - thank you.

What the heck is FSD any more? This is the confusion that Tesla have created.
I have whatever we considered FSD prior to the 2022 release of FSD beta / autosteer on city streets.

The Autopilot screen has a "Request Full Self-Driving Beta" button which was pressed 18-24 months ago. There's a note next to it saying "You are enrolled into Full Self-Driving Beta queue". Then there are toggles for "Autosteer (Beta)", "Navigate on Autopilot (Beta)", "Traffic Light and Stop Sign Control (Beta)", and "Summon (Beta)".

It's build 2022.8.10.16. The car reports it at v11.0. For what it's worth, TeslaFi version tracker doesn't consider it FSD - there's no little red FSD version number badge next to it.

 

[gearchruncher]

The Autopilot screen has a "Request Full Self-Driving Beta" button which was pressed 18-24 months ago. There's a note next to it saying "You are enrolled into Full Self-Driving Beta queue". Then there are toggles for "Autosteer (Beta)", "Navigate on Autopilot (Beta)", "Traffic Light and Stop Sign Control (Beta)", and "Summon (Beta)".

Yeah, that's not FSD. Go look up images/videos of actual FSD options in those menus. Bring those to court and just honestly tell the Judge that you don't have FSD, that's not a lie. You don't have to report what the SC told you, that's just one random person on earth and the factual evidence of looking at your car outweighs that.

 

[Vagus]

Interesting - I see what you mean.

THANK YOU so much @gearchruncher - both for starting this thread AND continuing to support it.

Resolutions email sent. I'll keep you posted on what happens next.

 

[seenhear]

Interesting - I see what you mean.

THANK YOU so much @gearchruncher - both for starting this thread AND continuing to support it.

Resolutions email sent. I'll keep you posted on what happens next.

@Vagus - You've received great guidance from gearcruncher.
I just thought I'd add what worked for me (and admittedly I may have gotten lucky).
The line of inquiry I pursued was to state I wanted to schedule upgrades required for FSD-Beta. Once upgrades were scheduled, and the cost was quoted, rather than approving the estimate, I requested the costs be waived since my car was sold as FSD-capable. They investigated, escalated, there were a few back and forths over several weeks. I kept rescheduling the appointment until I got resolution. More details HERE

 

[gearchruncher]

FYI for anyone looking at suing Tesla, they conveniently have a "how to serve us" page that makes finding their registered agent easy:

https://www.tesla.com/legal/contact

(choose "process of service")

 

[seenhear]

FYI for anyone looking at suing Tesla, they conveniently have a "how to serve us" page that makes finding their registered agent easy:

https://www.tesla.com/legal/contact

(choose "process of service")

That's actually kind of funny.