How would you prefer to pay for Supercharging?

[ohmman]

That's business 101.

Just wait until you get to business 102. That's when they talk about breakeven analysis and profit-volume-cost models.

 

[Garlan Garner]

I would love to see a complete pay-per-use business model ( including personnel, insurance, taxes, etc.)- that equals the $2k per customer charge.

Elements of a Business Plan

 

[Garlan Garner]

Just wait until you get to business 102. That's when they talk about breakeven analysis and profit-volume-cost models.

I agree.

Those are the kind of concepts that need to be discussed in this forum.
Not simply....
"People are hogging the SCs....lets get them out of there by charging them".....types of responses.

 

[SSD420]

I've just been browsing through this thread. I have not read all of the comments, but I'd like to chime in.

Next month, I'll be taking delivery of my first Tesla - MX 90D. Don't get me wrong, I'd love the idea of unlimited supercharging for the life of my MX. It sounds great. But, if Tesla would implement a fee for access to the Superchargers at the time of purchase and then another fee for its use, I think some people may think twice about going to their local supercharger.

I am still new to Tesla and still have what many call "range anxiety." Every time I've been to the SC the Supercharger parking spaces are full. If a small fee would deter even a small portion of the locals who in my opinion, are taking advantage, I think it would help. I have this fear that I will run out of juice, get to a supercharger and there be no spots available.

Looking into the future when the Model ☰ is a more common car, I fear that there will be even longer lineups for charging.

I'm in Canada and we don't have nearly as many superchargers here as in the USA. Perhaps as Tesla opens more here in the North, my views may change.

 

[ArtC]

Next month, I'll be taking delivery of my first Tesla - MX 90D. Don't get me wrong, I'd love the idea of unlimited supercharging for the life of my MX. It sounds great.

If your getting a model X, you have free access to the supercharger network for the life of the car

 

[Pando]

You might of missed the previous posts where we talked about this not being possible and that Tesla would have to be regulated like a utility company if they charged per kWh.

That's interesting. Do you have some references?

I would have thought that it would be a simple matter to put a kWh meter on each charger, have the customer swipe the credit card, and run the charge. Similar as pumping gasoline, as apparently that pay-per-use system has worked pretty well for decades.

If there is money to be made from selling energy, what would prevent Tesla from becoming an energy utility company?

 

[SSD420]

If your getting a model X, you have free access to the supercharger network for the life of the car

Yes, I understand that. Although in the future if they were to implement a small fee, I don't think I'd be that upset. Obviously, it depends on how much said "small fee" is.

When things cost money people think twice about using things. FREE things often get misused or abused.

 

[SSD420]

That's interesting. Do you have some references?

I would have thought that it would be a simple matter to put a kWh meter on each charger, have the customer swipe the credit card, and run the charge. Similar as pumping gasoline, as apparently that pay-per-use system has worked pretty well for decades.

If there is money to be made from selling energy, what would prevent Tesla from becoming an energy utility company?

Even if Tesla charged the current market value or slightly above for variances, I'm sure it would help. For them to make money on the charging itself, like real markups in retail or other businesses, it would be more infuriating.

Who pays for the electricity when a supercharger is on privately owned land? Tesla? The land owner?

 

[Pando]

Even if Tesla charged the current market value or slightly above for variances, I'm sure it would help. For them to make money on the charging itself, like real markups in retail or other businesses, it would be more infuriating.

Why? The cost for Tesla buying energy from the utility company can be offset by solar generation, energy storage and shifting to off-peak hours, volume, contracts, etc. - all the things Tesla/SolarCity is actually promoting today. I'm sure they would get a very favorable rate compared to a typical residential customer, so there is money to be made.

Who pays for the electricity when a supercharger is on privately owned land? Tesla? The land owner?

Tesla, using a separately metered circuit from the local utility company. Done all the time for various projects (notably cell phone towers, etc.) even on privately owned land. Contract will spell out the details.

 

[SSD420]

Why? The cost for Tesla buying energy from the utility company can be offset by solar generation, energy storage and shifting to off-peak hours, volume, contracts, etc. I'm sure they would get a very favorable rate compared to a typical residential customer, so there is money to be made..

Actually, I didn't think about that. You're right. They most definitely pay less than the typical residential customer.
Once the Model ☰ comes out, I think a lot of us will change our tunes on the supercharging. Then again, it really depends on how much more Tesla spends on the infrastructure. As I noted in an above post, I'm in Canada. So we really don't have that many Superchargers available to us. Currently, as it stands, it would be impossible to travel cross-country to the West Coast in my Tesla. The infrastructure just isn't there. As more and more people getting into Tesla's, especially here, longer lineups will have a huge impact at the superchargers.

 

[stopcrazypp]

That's interesting. Do you have some references?

I would have thought that it would be a simple matter to put a kWh meter on each charger, have the customer swipe the credit card, and run the charge. Similar as pumping gasoline, as apparently that pay-per-use system has worked pretty well for decades.

If there is money to be made from selling energy, what would prevent Tesla from becoming an energy utility company?

Blink's site kind of gives an idea of what states this will become an issue with:
Blink - Membership FAQs

The reason charge networks don't want to become utilities is because there is a lot of red tape and your whole business becomes regulated by the utilities commission. That means your hands are completely tied in setting rates even though technically you aren't really a utility in the first place. Given it is easy to bill by session or minutes instead, why would anyone want to go through those hoops just to bill by kWh?

 

[SSD420]

Blink's site kind of gives an idea of what states this will become an issue with:
Blink - Membership FAQs

The reason charge networks don't want to become utilities is because there is a lot of red tape and your whole business becomes regulated by the utilities commission. That means your hands are completely tied in setting rates even though technically you aren't really a utility in the first place. Given it is easy to bill by session or minutes instead, why would anyone want to go through those hoops just to bill by kWh?

Contrary to my above comments, I'd love to keep my for life of my MX free supercharging, but I still fear the demand for said superchargers will surpass the supply. Something needs to be done to combat this.

 

[Pando]

Thanks stopcrazypp for the reference, it's much appreciated.

I'm sure that when it's appropriate, laws and regulations can and will be rewritten to accommodate the need for charging infrastructure in a much more wider scale.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Thanks stopcrazypp for the reference, it's much appreciated.

I'm sure that when it's appropriate, laws and regulations can and will be rewritten to accommodate the need for charging infrastructure in a much more wider scale.

It's actually simpler than waiting for laws/regulations to change (which will take a while, the charge networks have been pushing for changes for years): simply bill by minute (or even session, although session is less ideal).

 

[Fred Thompson]

You might of missed the previous posts where we talked about this not being possible and that Tesla would have to be regulated like a utility company if they charged per kWh.

Would charging by mile added to the battery possibly avoid the problem of charge per kWh since the cost is averaged throughout the nation? Might be worth looking into.

 

[Pando]

Contrary to my above comments, I'd love to keep my for life of my MX free supercharging, but I still fear the demand for said superchargers will surpass the supply. Something needs to be done to combat this.

I think it's a privilege that you will and should be able to keep. You basically financed the SC upfront and you're entitled to the benefits. The question is how Tesla deals with the masses of M3 owners crowding the stations. And if pay-per-use is eventually implemented, for that reason I suggested that they may have to create exclusive use SC slots for the "unlimited" SC users that pay-per-use customers can't use.

 

[SSD420]

I think it's a privilege that you will and should be able to keep. You basically financed the SC upfront and you're entitled to the benefits. The question is how Tesla deals with the masses of M3 owners crowding the stations. And if pay-per-use is eventually implemented, for that reason I suggested that they may have to create exclusive use SC slots for the "unlimited" SC users that pay-per-use customers can't use.

That's a fascinating idea that I hope Tesla explores.

 

[Fred Thompson]

That calculator would just be an estimate of costs for charging at home based on assuming $0.12 home electricity on a 90D (it says right there in the fine print). In fact, there is a more detailed calculator in the "charging" section where the cost changes when you switch between the various socket options and electricity prices in Tesla's charging calculator. There is no option for supercharger in this calculator, but I don't see why superchargers have to cost the same as home charging. There are extra perks (speed of charging, parking, Tesla hlandles maintenance/repair of equipment) that puts extra value above home charging.

I am not sure Tesla needs to recoup the cost of the super charging stations that are already being paid for by other means. What Tesla needs to target is overuse of the superstations that will lead to unrealistic waiting times. If Tesla's per use cost is set by their average national cost for electricity, owners of the Model 3 that do not pay for the lifetime fee would likely charge at home instead of using the super charging stations. The per use cost that only pays for Tesla's electricity cost will silence naysayers that will use a higher fee to attack Tesla.

 

[Red Sage]

I still fail to understand why pay-per-use creates such negativity, or what "numerous problems" you are talking about that modern commerce hasn't figured out a long time ago. I use, I pay. Just like anything else we consumers do every day.

I've probably listed them in this thread of messages multiple times already. In short...? Pay-per-use is not worth the money you would generate for the trouble that would accompany it. Customer service issues would escalate tremendously. Mostly from people not realizing their credit card had expired. Also from people who don't know how to [FRELLING] read the details of the plan they selected. Often from people who decide to protest what they feel are erroneous charges or incorrect fees assessed when they are billed. People like to compare it to pumping gasoline. But they forget that gas stations these days make their real money from sales of alcohol, tobacco, soda, chips, and convenience items that have a 10,000% markup. Heck, so far Superchargers are unlikely to even have an air machine, squeegees and paper towels, or a trash can -- let alone a convenience store with three-year-old beef jerky and irradiated breakfast sausage on a stick or garbage-can-with-a-straw fountain soft drinks or Mississippi Mud Coffee dispensers. The 'convenience' afforded those who want to 'pay for what they use' would place that minority ahead of everyone else who 'Gets It'. And you'll still have the option to Pay-As-You-Go using the third party charging networks instead. Lobby those companies to give you what you want with pay-per-use Superchargers and leave Tesla Motors out of it.

 

[jkk_]

I am sorry to say it, but the regular bashing of future Model 3 owners as
not educated enough to be courteous or;
as people who will be abusing left and right or;
will be buying cars we really can't afford and will need charge at superchargers because we can't afford electricity;
is starting to make me wonder what I am getting myself into.

The idea that a significant percentage of posters beleive low income people (who ironically can't afford a $35,000 car) are low class is revolting.

Well said. If I'd have any photoshop skills I'd change the horse in the "beat the dead horse" memepictures to be the future model 3 owner.