HPWC, twin chargers and local Florida advice

[Larry Chanin]

I just asked in Dania Beach and the answer was "you won't need the extended service for 4 years and by then Tesla will have an agreement with Florida" but there's no official promise. This is at the top of my list of "negatives".

The warranty runs out at 50,000 miles regardless if four years haven't elapsed.

I'm pondering my need for the $2,700 HPWC option. I can't imagine needing a faster charging rate at home above 30 mi/hour, but the sales guy said double chargers on-board will double the charging rate at RV parks etc that have 80 amp service and said the double charge rate can be achieved with the portable cable kit. I'm searching to verify this but can't find it. Do you know if its accurate?

There is no portable Tesla cable kit that can handle 80 amps continuously. The Mobile Connector that Tesla provides is good for only 40 amp continuous and you only need one on-board charger to handle that amperage.

The only time dual on-board chargers are of use is when you are charging from a Tesla High Power Wall Connector or in those rare instances where you find a high capacity SAE J1772 charging station.

Larry

 

[Bill D]

[FONT=&amp]Thanks for helping me get up to speed. I received another call from someone else at Tesla following up on my questions to them earlier about Florida service agreements and I thought she might have some new news but she ended up not offering any solid commitment.

[/FONT]

The warranty runs out at 50,000 miles regardless if four years haven't elapsed.

[FONT=&amp]I probably have 4 years before the lack of an extended service contract seriously affects me because I doubt I’ll drive it more than 12,500 miles per year, unless I really fall in love and drive more miles than I have been driving.[/FONT]

There is no portable Tesla cable kit that can handle 80 amps continuously. The Mobile Connector that Tesla provides is good for only 40 amp continuous and you only need one on-board charger to handle that amperage.

The only time dual on-board chargers are of use is when you are charging from a Tesla High Power Wall Connector or in those rare instances where you find a high capacity SAE J1772 charging station.

[FONT=&amp]I suspect the sales guy at Dania Beach meant the J1772 adapter (not the portable cable) could be used for 80 amp charging “in the wild”. however, your point that such charging stations are rare makes the HPWC option a potential waste of $2,700 for me.[/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]Predicting the future is almost impossible. Will Superchargers or the high capacity J1772 charging stations proliferate? Who knows? I’m leaning towards not getting the twin chargers and if I really need it in the future, just paying the big bucks to add it.

Is there anything else I should be loosing sleep over in my decision process?
[/FONT]

 

[aviators99]

[FONT=&]Thanks for helping me get up to speed. I received another call from someone else at Tesla following up on my questions to them earlier about Florida service agreements and I thought she might have some new news but she ended up not offering any solid commitment.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&]I probably have 4 years before the lack of an extended service contract seriously affects me because I doubt I’ll drive it more than 12,500 miles per year, unless I really fall in love and drive more miles than I have been driving.[/FONT]


[FONT=&]I suspect the sales guy at Dania Beach meant the J1772 adapter (not the portable cable) could be used for 80 amp charging “in the wild”. however, your point that such charging stations are rare makes the HPWC option a potential waste of $2,700 for me.[/FONT]

[FONT=&]Predicting the future is almost impossible. Will Superchargers or the high capacity J1772 charging stations proliferate? Who knows? I’m leaning towards not getting the twin chargers and if I really need it in the future, just paying the big bucks to add it.

Is there anything else I should be loosing sleep over in my decision process?
[/FONT]

I am very glad I got the twin chargers and the HPWC, even though my need for both have been rare. I know that if I hadn't gotten them I would have regretted it the couple of times I needed them. I do believe that higher power public charging stations will proliferate, and quickly, based on the success of Tesla. And I believe much of the cost of installing the twin chargers will be recoverable upon resale. I've needed my HPWC when after returning from long trips I want to go out for dinner. The 80A boost gets me going again very quickly. Also, when leaving on road trips I typically do a 90% charge overnight and then an hour before departure I do a range charge at 80A. This makes my departure time more controllable, and limits the time at 100% SOC to nearly zero.

Unfortunately, I didn't use the same logic when decided whether or not I should get a performance model. I very much regret not doing that, and the loaner cars have made me green with envy.

 

[Bill D]

Thanks for the input from experience. I certainly could see twin chargers becoming a “must have” for resale if high power public charging stations proliferate. I’ve been reading posts where some folks think Superchargers will proliferate.

I’ve looked over my electric panel situation and I’m comfortable adding a NEMA 14-50, but perhaps, tomorrow, I should see how difficult it would be to accommodate 100A.

From reading myself to sleep many nights on the forums, I’m currently leaning towards a P85 (not "plus") with Air and 19” wheels. Am I going wrong on this?

 

[rogbmw]

I have the twin chargers, but not the HPWC, and charge at 40 amps on a dedicated NEMA 14-50 plug and circuit. I purchased the twin chargers for whenever I am on a trip and the Supercharger network is up and running.

 

[Lawsteve]

Keep in mind you do not need the twin chargers for supercharging. That has no impact upon the supercharging rate.

 

[Larry Chanin]

I have the twin chargers, but not the HPWC, and charge at 40 amps on a dedicated NEMA 14-50 plug and circuit. I purchased the twin chargers for whenever I am on a trip and the Supercharger network is up and running.

Keep in mind you do not need the twin chargers for supercharging. That has no impact upon the supercharging rate.

Roger,

Steve is correct. To elaborate Supercharging is Direct Current charging in which the on-board AC chargers, single or dual, are by-passed and the connection goes directly to the battery.

Larry

 

[Larry Chanin]

Thanks for the input from experience. I certainly could see twin chargers becoming a “must have” for resale if high power public charging stations proliferate. I’ve been reading posts where some folks think Superchargers will proliferate.

I’ve looked over my electric panel situation and I’m comfortable adding a NEMA 14-50, but perhaps, tomorrow, I should see how difficult it would be to accommodate 100A.

From reading myself to sleep many nights on the forums, I’m currently leaning towards a P85 (not "plus") with Air and 19” wheels. Am I going wrong on this?

Bill,

We've veered way off-topic, but to answer your question I think your reasoning makes sense. Personally, I think that in the future it is more likely that DC fast chargers, including Tesla Superchargers, will outpace the installation of high capacity AC chargers on the East Coast. I know of no organized initiative to install high capacity AC chargers here in Florida.

However, our club has the potential to influence this outcome somewhat, but in the long-term I doubt it will have a material effect. What I mean is that we have a private Club Charging Network in which participating members have agreed to share their home chargers with traveling participating club members. So far we have 51 members participating of which 10 have High Power Wall Connectors (HPWCs).

In addition, Nigel has been instrumental in coordinating the installation of High Power Wall Connectors in publically accessible locations. He donated an HPWC to Mote Marine (a non-profit research laboratory) in Sarasota and it has been installed. (Right now it is operating at reduced capacity.) We also had a Tesla executive privately donate an HPWC to our club. We solicited and received donations from club members and Nigel is coordinating in having it installed at Mote Marine in Key West. It is possible that our club may donate to other worthy host locations, but to be frank most of our members have little interest in making these sorts of donations and we would have to rely on a small minority of members to fund a public HPWC network.

Having said this I still think it is unlikely that in the long-term our club would have a material affect in the expansion of high capacity AC charging. In my opinion, in the short-term in the state of Florida Tesla's Supercharger network will outpace any high capacity network DC or AC. It is also possible that Nissan will continue to expand the CHAdeMO DC fast chargers into Florida, probably starting at their dealerships. I believe only one CHAdeMO charger is currently installed in the state. To use it you would have to purchase a Tesla CHAdeMO adapter for $1000 when it becomes available.

Ron (Aviators99) has provided a lot of good advice. However, he is more of a "road warrior" than most of us and therefore it makes more sense for him to have a home HPWC to quickly recharge after a long trip. I don't travel as much (other than to Tesla events :wink so I chose to defer getting an HPWC. If I do puchase one it will be more to accommodate traveling club members rather than my own personal needs.

Larry

PS If you are interested in joining our club, please click on my signature.

 

[brianman]

Roger,
Steve is correct. To elaborate Supercharging is Direct Current charging in which the on-board AC chargers, single or dual, are by-passed and the connection goes directly to the battery.
Larry

Perhaps an easy way to remember it is this:

Many use DC[SUP]1[/SUP] as an acronym for "Direct Current" (used by Superchargers and CHAdeMO).
Some might use DC[SUP]2[/SUP] as an acronym for "Dual Chargers" (ok "Twin Chargers" but bear with me).

DC[SUP]1[/SUP] and DC[SUP]2[/SUP] are not at all related or interoperable. Think of same polarity magnets repelling.

 

[Bill D]

Larry,

Thanks for the info. I’m slowly approaching the “tipping point” of ordering a P85. If I do, I will absolutely join the Florida club.

You’ve added two excellent reasons to buy an HWPC & twin chargers:

1 - HWPC - To accommodate traveling club members with half the wait time

2 - Twin Chargers – To cut the wait time in half when I’m stopping at a club member’s HPWC

To me those reasons are far more real than speculating on the future of DC/AC charging, supercharger/CHAdeMo vs high power J1772 charging stations.

You’ve inspired me to climb back up in my hot attic to re-think 100A vs 50A. It’s complicated.

Next to my meter are two main breakers (200A and 150A) that feed two long (100 Ft) conduit runs through my complex multilevel attic. The 2/0 AWG and 1/0 AWG wires in those two conduits feed two breaker panels in my garage. I’ve added up the loads in the panels and I feel OK adding a 50A breaker, but I think 100A may need a new 100 Ft attic conduit run, which would be major pain.

My FPL smart meter logs and saves usage, hourly, so I’ll go through those logs to examine the hourly peaks, but I’m not sure how much average usage statistics can be relied on to avoid a main breaker popping. I'm wondering if any HWPC users have had a main breaker pop when charging mid-day on hot Florida day with all the central A/C units running (I have 3) and dinner cooking on the electric stove and in the ovens?

Bill

 

[aviators99]

Larry,

Thanks for the info. I’m slowly approaching the “tipping point” of ordering a P85. If I do, I will absolutely join the Florida club.

You’ve added two excellent reasons to buy an HWPC & twin chargers:

1 - HWPC - To accommodate traveling club members with half the wait time

2 - Twin Chargers – To cut the wait time in half when I’m stopping at a club member’s HPWC

To me those reasons are far more real than speculating on the future of DC/AC charging, supercharger/CHAdeMo vs high power J1772 charging stations.

You’ve inspired me to climb back up in my hot attic to re-think 100A vs 50A. It’s complicated.

Next to my meter are two main breakers (200A and 150A) that feed two long (100 Ft) conduit runs through my complex multilevel attic. The 2/0 AWG and 1/0 AWG wires in those two conduits feed two breaker panels in my garage. I’ve added up the loads in the panels and I feel OK adding a 50A breaker, but I think 100A may need a new 100 Ft attic conduit run, which would be major pain.

My FPL smart meter logs and saves usage, hourly, so I’ll go through those logs to examine the hourly peaks, but I’m not sure how much average usage statistics can be relied on to avoid a main breaker popping. I'm wondering if any HWPC users have had a main breaker pop when charging mid-day on hot Florida day with all the central A/C units running (I have 3) and dinner cooking on the electric stove and in the ovens?

Bill

Never any problems with the HPWC at any hour/temperature combo (and I think I've tried all of them that South Florida provides, since I've had the HPWC through all of the seasons now). To me, the twin chargers are more important than the HPWC. You can always add the HPWC later without penalty, while adding the 2nd charger is ridiculously more expensive if done after you order.

Also, when I said that due to the success of Tesla that I believe proliferation of higher Amp public charging stations will increase, I was speaking indirectly. I believe Tesla's success will lead to other manufacturers making electric cars, and that the demand for faster charging, in general, will increase. That demand by Tesla owners will be satisfied by superchargers, for the most part. But other manufacturers will likely have to rely on something different; hopefully J1772, and that's why I believe there will be a growth in 70A public chargers.

 

[Bill D]

Never any problems with the HPWC at any hour/temperature combo (and I think I've tried all of them that South Florida provides, since I've had the HPWC through all of the seasons now). To me, the twin chargers are more important than the HPWC. You can always add the HPWC later without penalty, while adding the 2nd charger is ridiculously more expensive if done after you order.

Also, when I said that due to the success of Tesla that I believe proliferation of higher Amp public charging stations will increase, I was speaking indirectly. I believe Tesla's success will lead to other manufacturers making electric cars, and that the demand for faster charging, in general, will increase. That demand by Tesla owners will be satisfied by superchargers, for the most part. But other manufacturers will likely have to rely on something different; hopefully J1772, and that's why I believe there will be a growth in 70A public chargers.

Thanks - Your prognostications make sense and convinced me that the $2,700 investment is a good idea for the twin chargers alone. I also believe my current panels can accommodate 100A for the HPWC. My initial examination of my FPL on-line hour-by-hour amperage usage logs indicates I'll probably never get near an overload situation. The highest mid-day peak I could find was 68A being drawn, which is way below my 350A main breakers. My P85 ordering decision is coming into focus, but delayed due to another project, which is far less fun. I'll post any other ordering dilemmas in another thread.

Any way we can get this discussion moved to another thread? I know that there are a lot of Florida owners interested in the extended warranty, and this is just (a little) off-topic - thanks

Will do.