But then the train would have to have a pretty serious power source to push all that air out of the way. At the kinds of speeds necessary for this system, I don't think there's any way to do it with conventional technology.
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Hyperloop
- Thread starter gg_got_a_tesla
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agreed. Also, if the nominal tube pressure is 0.1 atm and the pressure in front of the train is more than 1 atm, then you're going to be having some serious sonic boom shock wave issues.
Not really - first drive would be a slow one, another a bit faster, a third even faster etc until a single drive pushes out all and only the air that leaked in after the previous drive - booting procedure.
There would need to be a constant frequency at which trains circle the tube, higher the frequency - lower air pressure - faster speed.
This removes the need for many pumps along the tube sustaining the vacuum. It also enables passengers to breathe 'normal' outside air without an onboard air supply.
There would need to be a constant frequency at which trains circle the tube, higher the frequency - lower air pressure - faster speed.
This removes the need for many pumps along the tube sustaining the vacuum. It also enables passengers to breathe 'normal' outside air without an onboard air supply.
pumps aren't really that expensive. You wouldn't need many as long as leakage isn't a big problem.
lots of air valves might actually be more expensive, and I just don't see how you could have low nominal air pressures and hyperbaric bow pressures without big problems.
You should be able to get 0.7 atm inside your train just fine in a 0.1 atm environment. I think you only need to worry about CO2 scrubbers for lower pressure vacuums.
How about a design where the tube is partially evacuated and the train has something like an electrically driven air turbine compressor at the front that compresses the air which is then blown out the back to create thrust and also blown between the car's outside walls and the tube's inside wall to keep it from rubbing? Power would be supplied by the tube using something like embedded microwave antennas transmitting power to the car to drive the compressor. The pressure of the tube would be set to the optimum trade off between high enough for the compressor to work efficiently and low enough to minimize drag.
PeterW
Member
Here is a new theory on the Hyperloop.
How does Elon Musks SF-to-LA-in-30-minutes Hyperloop work? | ExtremeTech)
This one may be on the money
How does Elon Musks SF-to-LA-in-30-minutes Hyperloop work? | ExtremeTech)
This one may be on the money
Johan
Ex got M3 in the divorce, waiting for EU Model Y!
Elon on conference call RIGHT NOW: Plans will be published "on Monday". I assume he means Monday Aug 12th.
jeff_adams
Member
Monday Elon Musk unveils his plans and shows the world his vision for Hyperloop. He is saying he doesn't have the time and energy to get involved in building it at this time.
So my question is, what happens next? How does Hyperloop go from a concept in Elon's head to a reality? What are his expectations after showing his vision?
I am a big believer in what Elon has done and can do. The guy proposed internet banking LONG before anyone saw the benefits. Now, almost everyone uses a smartphone or computer for banking.
Having seen his Grasshopper videos, it's clear he not only "envisions" but also executes. NASA and the Soviet Union had vast resources to develop rockets that could return to earth and land. They couldn't do it. Elon has.
Same with the electric car. He built one that is so far in advanced to it's competition, it's mind-boggling.
So my question is, what happens to Hyperloop? Who will run with the idea? How can it become a reality?
Can a non-profit be formed to advance the concept? Will venture capitalists step forward to fund a company to build it? Will everyone just sit back and expect someone else to do it?
I would be interested in joining together if there are others out there that believe it should be built. I don't have money to form a company, but I do have the conviction to push the concept forward. The role I think I would be most valuable in would be lobbyist. This thing would need the approval and backing of governments (be it state, federal or international).
I'm interested in hearing your thoughts about this. You are some of the most educated and informed people on the planet about Elon Musk and what he has been able to accomplish in a remarkably short time.
So my question is, what happens next? How does Hyperloop go from a concept in Elon's head to a reality? What are his expectations after showing his vision?
I am a big believer in what Elon has done and can do. The guy proposed internet banking LONG before anyone saw the benefits. Now, almost everyone uses a smartphone or computer for banking.
Having seen his Grasshopper videos, it's clear he not only "envisions" but also executes. NASA and the Soviet Union had vast resources to develop rockets that could return to earth and land. They couldn't do it. Elon has.
Same with the electric car. He built one that is so far in advanced to it's competition, it's mind-boggling.
So my question is, what happens to Hyperloop? Who will run with the idea? How can it become a reality?
Can a non-profit be formed to advance the concept? Will venture capitalists step forward to fund a company to build it? Will everyone just sit back and expect someone else to do it?
I would be interested in joining together if there are others out there that believe it should be built. I don't have money to form a company, but I do have the conviction to push the concept forward. The role I think I would be most valuable in would be lobbyist. This thing would need the approval and backing of governments (be it state, federal or international).
I'm interested in hearing your thoughts about this. You are some of the most educated and informed people on the planet about Elon Musk and what he has been able to accomplish in a remarkably short time.
EarlyAdopter
Active Member
What if you had a sealed tube loop, not vacuum, with a capsule at both ends, say San Francisco and LA. They both leave at the same instant. The pressure created in front of each capsule counter-balances the vacuum wake behind each capsule. Like-wise, the vacuum wake behind each capsule counter-balances the pressure created in front of each capsule. The loop becomes a hydraulic fluid loop, with two capsules accelerating to the same speed in the loop without air resistance because the air is forced along in the loop at the same rate as the capsules.
No vacuum needed, yet the capsules could travel at over 700 mph and never break the speed of sound, as they would be moving at 0 mph relative to the air in the loop.
No vacuum needed, yet the capsules could travel at over 700 mph and never break the speed of sound, as they would be moving at 0 mph relative to the air in the loop.
Which is what this is, surely:
How does Elon Musks SF-to-LA-in-30-minutes Hyperloop work? | ExtremeTech
(Link provided by PeterW a few posts back)
EarlyAdopter
Active Member
That article is about reducing drag through the creation of standing waves in the fluid (air) for a single vehicle in the loop. I'm suggesting something different - that by sending two capsules in opposition in a sealed loop you might not have to deal with drag or resistance at all, as the fluid (air) will move in the loop at same speed as the two capsules. They accelerate in unison and decelerate in unison, so embarkation and disembarkation is simple.
Ok. Kind of like those hill-climbing two-trams on a single cable things.
Would you need a perfect seal around the sides? Something like a pump. I would think there would be a significant amount of compression of the gas in the tubes, given the distance between LA and SF.
Another theory. Inductrack.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/modeledbehavior/2013/07/16/my-guess-elon-musk-is-talking-about-a-vacuum-channel-inductrack/?utm_source=allactivity&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=20130716
(apologies if it's been posted already)
http://www.forbes.com/sites/modeledbehavior/2013/07/16/my-guess-elon-musk-is-talking-about-a-vacuum-channel-inductrack/?utm_source=allactivity&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=20130716
(apologies if it's been posted already)
You need significant energy / power to move air in a closed loop within a tube of >2m diameter that runs from SF to LA. Even without pushing a capsule. This technology is called natural gas pipeline. There is friction between the moving medium and the inner tube wall. The energy dispersed by that friction increases with medium pressure and velocity. So no free lunch here.
If the capsule is propelled only via air pressure, it better fit tightly. Because there would be considerable delta of air pressure between front and rear side. But I am sure there is a better way to propel it and make the air move, might involve two different sources of propulsion. We'll see soon.
Didn't one of the tweets indicate that you could just turn up a go. I don't think that would work with just two vehicles.
Benz
Active Member
Will there be some kind of a live-stream when Elon Musk will unveil the Hyperloop Alpha Design?
Bill Nye mentioned the hyperloop this morning.
https://twitter.com/TheScienceGuy/statuses/366931191774973952
https://twitter.com/TheScienceGuy/statuses/366931191774973952
Norbert
TSLA will win
Elon's twitter account has 290,879 followers right now. Will it be 300,000 end of today? 
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BTW, just to mention it in this thread: Elon recently said it will be in a tube, however not a vacuum tube.
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BTW, just to mention it in this thread: Elon recently said it will be in a tube, however not a vacuum tube.
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