I am now planning to get the full self-driving option and here is why

[whitex]

Never underestimate the stubbornness of a Taurus.

In all seriousness Tesla is too big, and too high profile not to deliver something on the FSD front. I fully expect it not to measure up to what Elon claimed. But, I do expect something for my $3K and I do think there a lot of ways they can accomplish this while failing to actually achieve FSD.

Oh, I fully expect they will deliver "something", maybe the auto-steer icon will be a special "FSD Teal" instead of "EAP Blue". Maybe they'll hold off on some other feature that other cars give away for significantly less money and only enable it on the FSD enabled cars (such as TACC, available on a lot of new cars, but without it being a part of EAP Tesla would less EAP's). Maybe FSD will offer 90 degree turn Summon (something promised by Elon and Tesla for AP1 Summon btw) but EAP will only go in a straight line like today. Maybe it will (at your own risk of course) exit highways and stop at the end of the ramp. I just don't see it ever going beyond Level 3 (where the driver needs to be always ready to take over at split second notice). I hope I'm wrong by the way. The second AP2.5 can drop me off at the airport, go home, then come get me, I'll be buying FSD for my wife's AP2 car and upgrading my AP1 car to latest APx with FSD - unless of course some other manufacturer sold me a car that does that before Tesla gets there.

Something that will satisfy 95% of people.

That is not ever possible, not even if they delivered everything Elon said it will do. There will always be people who are not satisfied.

 

[whitex]

You misunderstand.
She said if I don’t buy FSD now for $3000, the price for buying it later will never change. It will remain frozen at $4000 regardless of what the price for FSD is set to in the future.

Just fyi, that was not true for Autopilot Convenience Features, even though some people assumed it was. The price went up at some point and those who wanted to purchase after that were quiet dissapointed (search Model S forum, the thread is there, maybe a couple).

 

[Az_Rael]

I currently have a Model S on order and I asked my Owner Advisor if the $4,000 cost could go up. The answer was basically yes & no. She told me that the $4,000 was locked in for me because that is what it was at the time of my purchase. No guarantees that it won’t change tomorrow, but it only effects new purchasers. So the $4,000 price is grandfathered in

You misunderstand.
She said if I don’t buy FSD now for $3000, the price for buying it later will never change. It will remain frozen at $4000 regardless of what the price for FSD is set to in the future.

I would take anything an Owner Advisor tells you with a bit grain of salt. If you treat them like the car salespeople they are, it generally goes better in the long run. As @whitex correctly pointed out, people did not get grandfathered in the past when the cost of AP went from $2500 to $5000. I would get that in writing at least.

Edit: I think the price increase I am remembering was the $2500 to $3000 one, not when they went to AP2 pricing. I wonder what non-AP owners of AP1 cars have to pay today for the software upgrade?

 

[whitex]

I would take anything an Owner Advisor tells you with a bit grain of salt. As @whitex correctly pointed out, people did not get grandfathered in the past when the cost of AP went from $2500 to $5000. I would get that in writing at least.

I second that. If there is one thing I learned about Tesla, great product, but make sure you are happy with what you get on delivery day - don't believe any forward looking statements. If you absolutely have to count on future promises, get it in writing.

 

[Az_Rael]

Interesting. CR decided to purchase FSD for their Model 3.

First Drive: Tesla Model 3

“We added the $5,000 Enhanced Autopilot system and the $3,000 full self-driving capability option to evaluate these intriguing features and their potential for over-the-air updates. By the time we were done, our Model 3 rang up at $59,000.“

 

[diplomat33]

Interesting. CR decided to purchase FSD for their Model 3.

First Drive: Tesla Model 3

“We added the $5,000 Enhanced Autopilot system and the $3,000 full self-driving capability option to evaluate these intriguing features and their potential for over-the-air updates. By the time we were done, our Model 3 rang up at $59,000.“

The way it is worded, it sounds like CR mistakenly thought that FSD was already available. But, there is nothing in FSD to evaluate yet. LOL.

 

[Daniellane]

It’s interesting that the first sentence sort indirectly implies that only 4 of the eight cameras will ever be used for AEP at least without the purchase of FSD. Also the last 2nd to last lines in the cost section clearly states:
$4,000 after delivery.
No footnote like price subject to change...

 

[diplomat33]

It’s interesting that the first sentence sort indirectly implies that only 4 of the eight cameras will ever be used for AEP at least without the purchase of FSD.

Yeah, my understanding is that EAP will only use 4 cameras while FSD will use 8. My guess is that Tesla feels that 4 cameras is good enough for what they have planned for EAP. And, Tesla does not plan to give EAP any type of FSD capability. Of course, FSD will need all 8 cameras to achieve it's full functionality.

Also the last 2nd to last lines in the cost section clearly states:
$4,000 after delivery.
No footnote like price subject to change...

I am not sure that means anything. After all, Tesla has made changes to the Model S options without notice.

 

[Az_Rael]

Yeah, my understanding is that EAP will only use 4 cameras while FSD will use 8. My guess is that Tesla feels that 4 cameras is good enough for what they have planned for EAP

Interestingly, the 3 only has 7 cameras per the window sticker, so I am guessing the backup camera isn't going to be used on the 3.

 

[Daniellane]

Yeah, my understanding is that EAP will only use 4 cameras while FSD will use 8. My guess is that Tesla feels that 4 cameras is good enough for what they have planned for EAP. And, Tesla does not plan to give EAP any type of FSD capability. Of course, FSD will need all 8 cameras to achieve it's full functionality.



I am not sure that means anything. After all, Tesla has made changes to the Model S options without notice.

The lack of a price being subject to change footnote may not mean anything to Tesla, but I do believe it means everything to the buyer who chooses wether or not to check the $3000 box when making that choice relies on the information below to make their decision.
The words “after delivery” are very clear.
Not a specified a time after delivery but just after delivery.
The amount $4,000 is also very clear.
Not up to $4,000 or $4,000 or more.
Just $4,000
So I don’t think you need to be an attorney to make your case here if the price did go up.
You could probably even make a case to get a refund for a portion of the $3,000 if the price went down.
But, that said, my experience with Tesla thus far is it they are very fair and reasonable and do everything they can to make things right.

 

[Saghost]

Yeah, my understanding is that EAP will only use 4 cameras while FSD will use 8. My guess is that Tesla feels that 4 cameras is good enough for what they have planned for EAP. And, Tesla does not plan to give EAP any type of FSD capability. Of course, FSD will need all 8 cameras to achieve it's full functionality.



I am not sure that means anything. After all, Tesla has made changes to the Model S options without notice.

eAP has no need for the b pillar and wide angle cameras. Those are needed for handling traffic lights and stop signs and low speed maneuvering in parking lots - FSD stuff.

 

[diplomat33]

The lack of a price being subject to change footnote may not mean anything to Tesla, but I do believe it means everything to the buyer who chooses wether or not to check the $3000 box when making that choice relies on the information below to make their decision.
The words “after delivery” are very clear.
Not a specified a time after delivery but just after delivery.
The amount $4,000 is also very clear.
Not up to $4,000 or $4,000 or more.
Just $4,000
So I don’t think you need to be an attorney to make your case here if the price did go up.
You could probably even make a case to get a refund for a portion of the $3,000 if the price went down.
But, that said, my experience with Tesla thus far is it they are very fair and reasonable and do everything they can to make things right.

I agree with you. I think Tesla will try to be very fair to customers. If you are a current owner or a new owner who placed an order and is waiting to take delivery, I think Tesla would exempt you from any price changes. However, I do think Tesla could increase the price of FSD to people who have not placed an order for a car yet.

 

[Dan Detweiler]

The lack of a price being subject to change footnote may not mean anything to Tesla, but I do believe it means everything to the buyer who chooses wether or not to check the $3000 box when making that choice relies on the information below to make their decision.
The words “after delivery” are very clear.
Not a specified a time after delivery but just after delivery.
The amount $4,000 is also very clear.
Not up to $4,000 or $4,000 or more.
Just $4,000
So I don’t think you need to be an attorney to make your case here if the price did go up.
You could probably even make a case to get a refund for a portion of the $3,000 if the price went down.
But, that said, my experience with Tesla thus far is it they are very fair and reasonable and do everything they can to make things right.

I have never thought the $4000 price after configuration was set in stone. Tesla could very easily and very legally set the price wherever they want in the future. The $4000 price is just what it is now. If it were me and I held off on FSD I wouldn't wait very long to get the feature. Once it does become available I don't think there is any way it stays at $4000. Wouldn't be surprised to see it double. But...that's just me.

Dan

 

[MorrisonHiker]

I have never thought the $4000 price after configuration was set in stone. Tesla could very easily and very legally set the price wherever they want in the future. The $4000 price is just what it is now. If it were me and I held off on FSD I wouldn't wait very long to get the feature. Once it does become available I don't think there is any way it stays at $4000. Wouldn't be surprised to see it double. But...that's just me.

Dan

They gave plenty of heads-up when the standard "free, unlimited supercharging" came to an end...and even extended the deadline a bit. Hopefully they will announce a price increase before they actually implement the increase in price and potential buyers and existing owners would have several months to buy FSD at the $3000 or $4000 price.

 

[Dan Detweiler]

They gave plenty of heads-up when the standard "free, unlimited supercharging" came to an end...and even extended the deadline a bit. Hopefully they will announce a price increase before they actually implement the increase in price and potential buyers and existing owners would have several months to buy FSD at the $3000 or $4000 price.

That would certainly be reasonable. I hope it comes off like that.

Dan

 

[d21mike]

You misunderstand.
She said if I don’t buy FSD now for $3000, the price for buying it later will never change. It will remain frozen at $4000 regardless of what the price for FSD is set to in the future.

First, for those that did not buy it, I hope this is true for them. But, I did get misinformation from my Tesla Rep. I knew better so not a big deal but he said things with such authority that if I did not know better he would have convinced me of it. Anyway, I have not heard this before so maybe true. But, if you are relying on this then maybe it being in your contract is a good idea. If you ask for it in the contract and they say NO then that should tell you something.

 

[d21mike]

FSD... Recent statements be Elon was that if they need to upgrade the hardware (maybe only talking about the computer) to allow for FSD they would do that for those that had the FSD Option for FREE. I take that to not include customers who did not already have FSD. But maybe he meant to include those that also upgrade.

 

[Dan Detweiler]

FSD... Recent statements be Elon was that if they need to upgrade the hardware (maybe only talking about the computer) to allow for FSD they would do that for those that had the FSD Option for FREE. I take that to not include customers who did not already have FSD. But maybe he meant to include those that also upgrade.

Of course this is all up for debate at this point but my take on it is that if you purchase FSD now and later on they find that there needs to be some sort of hardware change made in order for that to happen then they would perform those changes free of charge. I do NOT see them doing that for free for those that did not commit to FSD from the start. I would assume that those customers would have to pay for the hardware change and then also pay whatever they chose to charge for the FSD add on. Might be the 4K they quote now...might be more.

Time will tell.

Dan

 

[Barklikeadog]

Of course this is all up for debate at this point but my take on it is that if you purchase FSD now and later on they find that there needs to be some sort of hardware change made in order for that to happen then they would perform those changes free of charge. I do NOT see them doing that for free for those that did not commit to FSD from the start. I would assume that those customers would have to pay for the hardware change and then also pay whatever they chose to charge for the FSD add on. Might be the 4K they quote now...might be more.

Time will tell.

Dan

I think that gets skipped over with everyone arguing about what the possible future fee may be. The answer is: it depends. Will all conversions
for FSD be the same so that they charge $4000, $4500, $5000, etc? or will it be $4000 and then additional cost per part? I would hope that it goes
the way of $4k(or whatever number) plus parts. Hopefully in the worst case costly scenario, the labor is part of the $4000.

 

[diplomat33]

I wanted to say that even if Tesla's FSD is not perfect, I think it would still be worth it. For example, having a car that can truly self-drive, without any driver input at all, on the highway, would be a big step above EAP and would be a great feature. I definitely think that AP2 hardware is good enough for highway FSD.

I predict that we will see a Level 4 autonomous system from Tesla soon that will be really good at highway driving and be able to handle common city driving competently but won't be able to handle those extraordinary situations like a box falling off the back of a truck. So for city driving, you might still need to pay attention for those rare instances when the car asks you to take over but the car will be able handle common driving situations with little problem.

Also, I've been watching some Waymo videos, their system does appear to be impressive in city driving but I've not seen much for highway driving. I wonder why. I am sure it could do highway driving but it appears as if the engineers have decided to tackle city driving first, probably because it is more difficult. It seems as if Waymo is only interested in city driving because they want to be an urban taxi service and are ignoring highway driving altogether.