I am now planning to get the full self-driving option and here is why

[Barklikeadog]

No. Here is how I read the FSD paragraph: "we believe AP2 has the hardware necessary for FSD. Here is a description of what FSD will be able to do when it is complete. We are confident that we will achieve FSD at some point in the future but we cannot promise a specific deadline because of software testing and regulatory requirements outside our control."

Now as I see it, some people simply refuse to accept this because they have already set in their minds that FSD is impossible. As a result, they see Tesla promising something that in their minds is impossible and therefore Tesla is breaking a promise. But if you read the paragraph with an open mind, then Tesla is not breaking any promises yet because Tesla has every intention of delivering FSD at some undetermined point in the future.

I said it wasn't possible for the car as it is designed/constructed in its current state. I fail to see how this observation is an attack. In the previous posts I see words like
'feel' or 'think' or 'believe'. Well you are selling a $5,000 product you need more than that. The car looking for a parking spot, or ride sharing while you are relaxing at
home isn't a year away, it is probably a decade away. Just be honest about that. What happens when California says self-driving is legal but the state requires a device to track the auto,
and Nevada says self-driving cars need a Lidar, and Washington state requires twice as many cameras.... Tesla is really going to make it right? Will they update your car to satisfy
every state or just the one you live in?

I take no joy in seeing Tesla get sued. I don't want it to happen. When the CEO tells people that by 2019 they will be able to sleep while driving... that is a problem.

 

[Dan Detweiler]

I think most people drive a car for the experience. If you don’t want to drive, then why not Uber?

Independence, self reliance, a feeling of self worth.

I say these things with the elderly, the infirm, and the handicapped in mind.

Dan

 

[diplomat33]

I think most people drive a car for the experience. If you don’t want to drive, then why not Uber?

People own cars for a variety of reasons. Some, yes, buy a car because they love the thrill of driving it, especially a fun, sporty car. Other people buy a car because they want to own a mode of transportation to get to work or go to the store. Using Uber is not always convenient. Would you really depend on Uber to get to work and come home every day? Probably not. Owning a car gives you more freedom to go whenever and where ever you like. But just because you own a car, does not mean you always want to drive it. Maybe you need to go somewhere but are tired. Maybe you need to go home but are not feeling well. An Uber might not be available. Having a full self-driving car that can take you where you need to go when you don't feel like driving or cannot drive, would be very convenient. Plus, there are times when driving is boring, like stop and go traffic. Having the car take over would be advantageous. Or, when you are on a long road trip, having the car take over for a little bit, would make the trip less tiring. A true Level 5 self-driving car would also allow people to be more productive, like answer an important email during the time when they would normally need to be driving. Plus, having a self-driving car does not mean that you never drive again. A FSD car would give you the flexibility to choose when to drive yourself and when to let the car drive. So, there are plenty of reasons to have a FSD car and still like to drive.

 

[whitex]

Hmm, I actually think the only reason to get fsd now is that the hardware probably isn’t powerful enough so Tesla will remove the fsd option for current cars at some point. But if you already paid you would be grandfathered in and hardware upgraded by Tesla.

I paid for 691hp P85D car, and did not get grandfathered into any free upgrades to a P100D which can actually generate the advertised power. All I got was 463hp and a lame excuse from Tesla - "The motors are totally capable of generating 691hp, just limited by the battery, the fuse, and the wiring in the car". Current cars are totally capable of FSD, just limited by lack of software, senors and possible some other things (redundancy, etc).

 

[whitex]

I know the consensus is that getting the FSD option now does not make sense. The argument goes that we have no idea when FSD will arrive, it could be years or maybe "never". Then there is the argument that we don't know if the hardware is even good enough so why spend money on an option if we later find out, it requires new hardware. So the argument is it is better to wait and see. I used to agree with that consensus. But the recent conference call has changed my mind. I am now planning to get the FSD option on my Model 3 unless something changes between now and when I get my car.

Here are my reasons:
1) Tesla is planning the FSD coast to coast demo in 3-6 months. Musk also said the neural net is solid and will learn exponentially. Both those statements taken together make me optimistic that they are close to getting FSD working. Now, I know that Tesla misses deadlines. After all, Musk said "3-6 months" for AP2 to diverge from AP1 and we all know how that panned out. So, yes, it is possible that the FSD demo will get pushed back again. But even if they do miss the 6 month deadline to do the demo, I think they are pretty close now to getting FSD working. I definitely don't think FSD is decades away as the skeptics claim.
2) I plan to finance my Model 3, pay it off and keep the car for as long as it lasts. So even if FSD is still a few years off, I think I will see it happen in the lifetime of my car. So getting it now will save me $1000.
3) When Tesla does release FSD, I think it will be AMAZING! Call me a fanboy, but I think Tesla will impress when they do finally release FSD. And I want to be ready to get it as soon as it is released!

Having said all that, I am still about 10 months away from getting my Model 3 according to my estimated delivery date. I will pay close attention to any FSD news in the coming months. There is still plenty of time for things to change for better or for worse. And if bad news comes out about Tesla's FSD in the next coming months, I will of course re-evaluate my position. But right now, count me as back in the "planning to get FSD" camp.

Or just take the $8K, invest in TSLA, and if they do manage to make FSD work, upgrade your whole car to the latest for the money you'll get from the stock.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

Nope, gotta respectfully disagree with you. Again, in my mind (and I will be ordering FSD) Tesla has not "promised" anything. They have stated that they feel all the hardware they will need is in the car. So, what happens if it turns out they can't for whatever reason? Then I believe they will do whatever upgrades are necessary on the cars of the owners who ponied up the money up front. Is THAT guaranteed? Nope, but I do believe they will do it. Call it faith, call it stupidity, call it what you will. But, it is my choice in the end. I do not fell like Tesla is being disingenuous. I do not feel like I am being taken in any way, and like I said, I will be spending my money on this option.

Dan

You're adding things that don't exist in the statement on the webpage. There is no "feel all the hardware they will need" or what the engineers think is possible because it doesn't matter. What matter is what a company commits to.

"Full Self-Driving Hardware on cars - All Tesla vehicles produced in our factory, including Model 3, have the hardware needed for full self-driving capability at a safety level substantially greater than that of a human driver."

I do agree that they haven't promised a time frame, and they can't promise it's going to meet regulatory approval. So both of those two I'll give Tesla quite a bit of a slack on.

But, not on the statement regarding hardware. If additional hardware is needed to accomplish the task then I feel they are legally obligated to either refund customers or to add the features to their cars.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

I paid for 691hp P85D car, and did not get grandfathered into any free upgrades to a P100D which can actually generate the advertised power. All I got was 463hp and a lame excuse from Tesla - "The motors are totally capable of generating 691hp, just limited by the battery, the fuse, and the wiring in the car". Current cars are totally capable of FSD, just limited by lack of software, senors and possible some other things (redundancy, etc).

But, they did get sued over this and they lost. So they had to pay $$$'s.

Apparently you just live in the wrong place.

 

[whitex]

You're adding things that don't exist in the statement on the webpage. There is no "feel all the hardware they will need" or what the engineers think is possible because it doesn't matter. What matter is what a company commits to.

"Full Self-Driving Hardware on cars - All Tesla vehicles produced in our factory, including Model 3, have the hardware needed for full self-driving capability at a safety level substantially greater than that of a human driver."

I do agree that they haven't promised a time frame, and they can't promise it's going to meet regulatory approval. So both of those two I'll give Tesla quite a bit of a slack on.

But, not on the statement regarding hardware. If additional hardware is needed to accomplish the task then I feel they are legally obligated to either refund customers or to add the features to their cars.

There so many ways Tesla can give you an excuse. "Hardware is capable but doesn't meet your country's standards - lacks redundancy or whatever." , " Hardware is capable, but requires neural network training that is estimated to take 100 years", the latter basically assumes that if deaf humans can drive, so can a computer with 8 cameras, radar, etc - a perfectly valid theory, except each human neural network takes many, many years of training, in car and outside of the car (so if a human sees a hot-tub on the road, they know it's hard and it will probably hurt to drive into it for example. A computer trained on just roads that hasn't seen one ever may conclude it's just a puff of exhaust from another car).

Lastly, you not willing to give Tesla slack on this means nothing, unless you are willing to get your grandchildren, or even their great grandchildren to keep your car drivable in order to hold it over Tesla.

 

[Jays200]

I guess you missed the post where I said that I am not in denial.

Yep. Probably had my BS filter turned up to off the scale.

 

[Barklikeadog]

Yep. Probably had my BS filter turned up to off the scale.

Some people like to put a 0 emissions protective case on their cell phone and some don't.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

Lastly, you not willing to give Tesla slack on this means nothing, unless you are willing to get your grandchildren, or even their great grandchildren to keep your car drivable in order to hold it over Tesla.

Never underestimate the stubbornness of a Taurus.

In all seriousness Tesla is too big, and too high profile not to deliver something on the FSD front. I fully expect it not to measure up to what Elon claimed. But, I do expect something for my $3K and I do think there a lot of ways they can accomplish this while failing to actually achieve FSD.

Something that will satisfy 95% of people.

I don't expect to end up in your shoes where you were clearly misled, and no restitution was made.

 

[Barklikeadog]

Never underestimate the stubbornness of a Taurus.

In all seriousness Tesla is too big, and too high profile not to deliver something on the FSD front. I fully expect it not to measure up to what Elon claimed. But, I do expect something for my $3K and I do think there a lot of ways they can accomplish this while failing to actually achieve FSD.

Something that will satisfy 95% of people.

I don't expect to end up in your shoes where you were clearly misled, and no restitution was made.

Well california is about to allow driverless cars in 5 weeks. Is that when Elon will flip the switch?

 

[diplomat33]

I said it wasn't possible for the car as it is designed/constructed in its current state.

But you don't know that. Tesla says that the car will be able to do FSD as designed.

The car looking for a parking spot, or ride sharing while you are relaxing at home isn't a year away, it is probably a decade away. Just be honest about that.

I think you are wrong. FSD is probably 2-3 years away, not a decade.

What happens when California says self-driving is legal but the state requires a device to track the auto,
and Nevada says self-driving cars need a Lidar, and Washington state requires twice as many cameras....

That is all speculation on your part. None of that has happened. In fact, the California DMV has authorized FSD cars WITH NO DRIVERS on public roads:

California green lights fully driverless cars for testing on public roads

When the CEO tells people that by 2019 they will be able to sleep while driving... that is a problem.

It's not a problem if it actually happens.

 

[Daniellane]

Nope. We are spending $3000 to get FSD and save $1000 or more. The price will most likely go up and if that happens, we will have saved a lot more than $1k.



FSD will happen. FSD is inevitable. And yes, I will use it a lot.



When FSD becomes available and the price jumps to $5000, don't come here and whine that Musk is trying to rip you off. You were warned.

I currently have a Model S on order and I asked my Owner Advisor if the $4,000 cost could go up. The answer was basically yes & no. She told me that the $4,000 was locked in for me because that is what it was at the time of my purchase. No guarantees that it won’t change tomorrow, but it only effects new purchasers. So the $4,000 price is grandfathered in

 

[diplomat33]

I currently have a Model S on order and I asked my Owner Advisor if the $4,000 cost could go up. The answer was basically yes & no. She told me that the $4,000 was locked in for me because that is what it was at the time of my purchase. No guarantees that it won’t change tomorrow, but it only effects new purchasers. So the $4,000 price is grandfathered in

That is what I figured. If you buy FSD now, the price is locked in of course. But if you don't buy FSD now and wait until after it is released the price to purchase it after delivery will most likely go up. That is why I think people who say they will wait until FSD is actually released before buying it, may be in for a surprise.

 

[Daniellane]

That is what I figured. If you buy FSD now, the price is locked in of course. But if you don't buy FSD now and wait until after it is released the price to purchase it after delivery will most likely go up. That is why I think people who say they will wait until FSD is actually released before buying it, may be in for a surprise.

You misunderstand.
She said if I don’t buy FSD now for $3000, the price for buying it later will never change. It will remain frozen at $4000 regardless of what the price for FSD is set to in the future.

 

[diplomat33]

You misunderstand.
She said if I don’t buy FSD now for $3000, the price for buying it later will never change. It will remain frozen at $4000 regardless of what the price for FSD is set to in the future.

ok

 

[Daniellane]

ok

For what it’s worth, this is my second time around. Purchase FSD first time thinking that Tesla would be obligated to upgrade my car’s hardware if necessary to comply with unforeseen regulatory requirements like the ability for autonomous cars to communicate with each other...
Elon Musk basically said so when AP2.5 came out.
I now feel fairly confident that FSD will not happen for at least three years.
So by then hardware may be so much better that I will just want to trade my car in.
From what I have learned the trade-in value of the car with FSD enabled has virtually the same trade-in value as a car that doesn’t.
I wonder if this is true with AEP as well, since Tesla can basically flip a software switch on and off for either of those features at will and no obvious cost.
If I decide to lease then it’s definitely a moot point.
In either case I should have all options open including keeping my car for the free grandfathered non-transferable supercharging that may no longer be an option by then.

 

[EVNow]

If PUP was not forced on us - my choice would be to get AEP. Atleast it does something today.

FSD - who knows. I'm just hoping for FSD on known routes in good conditions in a couple of years.

BTW, some companies have already demonstrated coast to coast FSD.

 

[Dr. J]

If PUP was not forced on us - my choice would be to get AEP. Atleast it does something today.

FSD - who knows. I'm just hoping for FSD on known routes in good conditions in a couple of years.

BTW, some companies have already demonstrated coast to coast FSD.

If PUP was not forced on us - my choice would be to get AEP. Atleast it does something today.

FSD - who knows. I'm just hoping for FSD on known routes in good conditions in a couple of years.

BTW, some companies have already demonstrated coast to coast FSD.

You just *had* to have Post # 200...

BTW, I agree with the gist of your post(s).