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I got HW 4.0 but NO FSD Beta

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exactly, so right next to Amount they should put (Coming Soon). Like $199/Month (Coming Soon)
A further point is that you dont even see that screen until the vehicle is purchased. Prior to purchase all we have are what senior people in the company say.

At CVPR 2023 (link) Elluswamy said:
- The speaker, Ashok Elluswamy, is lead member of the autopilot team at Tesla.
- He presents their work on what they believe will be the foundation model for autonomy and robotics.
- Tesla has shipped the full self-driving beta software to all purchasers in the United States and Canada, with roughly 400,000 vehicles having driven up to 250 million miles on the full self-driving beta program.
- The self-driving stack is scalable and can navigate to any destination within the US, handling intersections, stopping at traffic lights, and interacting with other objects.
- The system is driven primarily by eight cameras on the car that provide a full 360-degree coverage.
- The self-driving stack is based on modern machine learning, with many components folded into neural networks. This is different from the traditional approach to self-driving, which uses localization maps and various sensors.
- The system works primarily with cameras, and it performs quite well.
- The speaker discusses the importance of occupancy networks in their stack, which predict whether a voxel in 3D space is occupied or not. This model task is general and robust to ontology errors.
- The occupancy networks also predict the flow of voxels in the future, providing arbitrary motion. Everything runs in real time.
- The architecture of the system may look complicated, but it's quite straightforward. Videos from multiple cameras stream in, and a large Transformer block builds up features and does temporal attention with some geometry thrown in.
- The same architecture can be used for other tasks needed for driving, such as predicting lanes and roads.
- Lanes are crucial for driving tasks but are challenging to predict due to their high-dimensional nature, graph structure, and large uncertainty. They can span the entire road, fork, merge, and sometimes even humans cannot agree on their structure.
- The team uses state-of-the-art generative modeling techniques, such as autoregressive transformers, to predict lanes. This approach is similar to GPT and predicts lanes one token at a time, considering the full graph structure.
- Moving objects like vehicles, trucks, and pedestrians need to be detected with their full kinematic state. The models used are multi-modal, taking in not just camera video streams but also other inputs like the vehicle's own kinematics and navigation instructions.
- The entire motion planning can also be done using a network, making the system a modern machine learning stack where everything is done end-to-end.
- The success of this system is attributed to the sophisticated auto-labeling pipeline that provides data from the entire fleet. This allows for multi-trip reconstruction, where multiple Tesla vehicles driving through the same location provide their video clips and kinematic data to construct the entire 3D scene.
- The team uses multi-trip reconstruction to gather data from the entire fleet, enabling them to reconstruct lanes, road lines, and other elements from anywhere on Earth.
- They use a hybrid approach to Neural Radiance Fields (NeRF) and general 3D reconstruction, which results in accurate and clear reconstructions of the scene, including vehicles, barriers, and trucks.
- Additional neural networks are run offline to produce labels for lanes, roads, and traffic lights, creating a vector representation that can be used as labels for the online stack.
- The system can auto-label traffic lights, predicting their shape, color, and relevancy, and these predictions are multi-view consistent.
- These predictions provide a superhuman understanding of the world from cameras, creating a foundation model that can be used in various places.
- The system helps with both autonomous and manual driving, providing emergency braking for crossing vehicles. This is a new feature, as crossing objects are harder to predict than vehicles in your own lane.
- The team is working on learning a more general world model that can represent arbitrary things, using recent advances in generative models like Transformers and diffusion.
- The neural network can predict future video sequences given past videos. It predicts for all eight cameras around the car jointly, understanding depth and motion on its own without any 3D priors.
- The model can be action-conditioned. For example, given the same past context, when asked for different futures (like keep driving straight or change lanes), the model can produce different outcomes.
- This creates a neural network simulator that can simulate different futures based on different actions, representing things that are hard to describe in an explicit system.
- Future prediction tasks can also be done in semantic segmentation or reprojected to 3D spaces, predicting future 3D scenes based on the past and action prompting.
- The team is working on solving various nuances of driving to build a general driving stack that can drive anywhere in the world and be human-like, fast, efficient, and safe.
- Training these models requires a lot of compute power. Tesla is aiming to become a world leader in compute with their custom-built training hardware, Dojo, which is starting production soon.
- The models are not just being built for the car but also for the robot, with several networks shared between the car and the robot.
- The foundational models for vision that the team is building are designed to understand everything and generalize across cars and robots. They can be trained on diverse data from the fleet and require a lot of compute power.
- The team is excited about the progress they expect to make in the next 12 to 18 months.
- In the Q&A session, the speaker explains that they can track moving objects in the 3D reconstruction with their hybrid NeRF approach, using various cues and signals in the data.
- The world model for future prediction tasks is a work in progress, but it's starting to work now, providing a simulator where they can roll out different outcomes and learn representations.
- The use of autoregressive models for predicting lanes is due to the graph structure of lanes and the need to model a distribution in high-dimensional space. This approach provides clear, non-blurry predictions that are useful downstream.
- The voxel size in the occupancy network output is a trade-off between memory and compute and can be configured based on the needs of the application.
- The same principles of the world model should apply to humanoid robots. The model should be able to imagine what actions like picking up a cup or walking to a door would look like.
- The occupancy network is used for collision avoidance in the full self-driving (FSD) system. It's particularly useful for dealing with unusual vehicles or objects that are hard to model using other methods.
- The general world model is still being optimized and hasn't been shipped to customers yet. It might be ready later in the year.
- The system doesn't use high-definition maps, so alignment isn't super critical. The maps used are low-definition, providing enough information to guide the network on which roads and lanes to take.
 
Right. I think even the biggest Tesla supporters would agree that the FSD vs FSD Beta and how Tesla presents it is ridiculous.
I have had Tesla for years, sold my 2016 Model X and got a 2023 Model Y. The reason I got another Tesla is because I believe in Tesla/Elon Musk's promise, I love driving this Car. The reason I created this thread was because I wasn't Happy about this whole FSD Drama. This can easily be avoided if the company cared about user experience.
 
I have had Tesla for years, sold my 2016 Model X and got a 2023 Model Y. The reason I got another Tesla is because I believe in Tesla/Elon Musk's promise, I love driving this Car. The reason I created this thread was because I wasn't Happy about this whole FSD Drama. This can easily be avoided if the company cared about user experience.
Heck when getting the Model Y. They even refused to confirm whether it was HW3.0 or HW4.0. Replied with a generic statement that all our models are FSD capable. So much secrecy and hiding facts on the inventory and order cars is nonsense. I totally understand if they don't want to reveal their upcoming technology. But if they have the car is already in the lot tell the goddamn customer.
 
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But if they have the car is already in the lot tell the [...] customer.
That car is not your car yet. You haven't committed to paying for it. How many customers will find out that it's the "wrong" hardware revision and reject the car? Why would Tesla open themselves to being left holding a car for which they already had a buyer? So they say "It's fine, you'll love it" because they don't want to give you any information that might mean you'd back out of the deal. Consumers can be a capricious lot, and I do not envy anyone who tries to sell a consumer-level product.

Now, if we had almost no crazy, selfish, obnoxious consumers then we'd have much more civil interactions with companies. But we have too many, and so we can't have nice things. We're left with an adversarial relationship between companies and consumers.
 
Believe it or not, even the people at the Tesla "dealerships" don't necessarily know everything about what they are selling...just like every other manufacturers dealership sales people. Every car I have ever bought where I talked to a sales person, they couldn't answer certain questions, or didn't know how basic features worked.

If it isn't a normal question, they might not know the answer and they don't necessarily have any incentive to get that answer for you especially Tesla because they don't have any issues getting their cars off the lot.
 
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That car is not your car yet. You haven't committed to paying for it. How many customers will find out that it's the "wrong" hardware revision and reject the car? Why would Tesla open themselves to being left holding a car for which they already had a buyer? So they say "It's fine, you'll love it" because they don't want to give you any information that might mean you'd back out of the deal. Consumers can be a capricious lot, and I do not envy anyone who tries to sell a consumer-level product.

Now, if we had almost no crazy, selfish, obnoxious consumers then we'd have much more civil interactions with companies. But we have too many, and so we can't have nice things. We're left with an adversarial relationship between companies and consumers.

With your logic, they can withhold the year of the car (whether it is 2022 or 2023), because both the cars can "drive", because then you might say I don't want 2022, and they can never sell the older car.

Only a blind fanboy will accept your logic but a smart consumer can not accept that logic. if upgrading a hardware is inconsequential then why did they upgrade to HW4 at the first place? If it was upgraded for a purpose the consumer has a right to ask before they make an informed decision and hand over their hard earned money.

Btw, I am an investor in Tesla and have owned Teslas for long time. I am having a great time as an investor but NOT that great as a consumer. And generally it's not a good sign.
 
With your logic, they can withhold the year of the car (whether it is 2022 or 2023), because both the cars can "drive", because then you might say I don't want 2022, and they can never sell the older car.

Only a blind fanboy will accept your logic but a smart consumer can not accept that logic. if upgrading a hardware is inconsequential then why did they upgrade to HW4 at the first place? If it was upgraded for a purpose the consumer has a right to ask before they make an informed decision and hand over their hard earned money.
This isn't "my logic". This is contract law.

Of course, you can ask all you want about the car. Tesla isn't obliged to tell you about the technical details of the vehicle that they're offering to you because there is no law that requires it. The law only requires that they fulfill the terms of any contracts, plus whatever consumer protection laws might be on the books (which is why we are guaranteed to have a proper safety restraint system and so on). As a matter of fact, the Motor Vehicle Order Agreement includes the sentence:

"Options, features or hardware released or changed after you place your order may not be included in or available for your Vehicle"

Good customer relations would certainly encourage them in the direction of being communicative, but if they don't want to say, they don't have to. Any buyer who is interested in being informed isn't going to like that. So when another company comes along that clearly communicates the technical details of their cars, people will buy their cars instead of Tesla's. Tesla goes out of business. This is just the way capitalism works.

I'm not saying that I agree with the way that the system works, only that it works that way.
 
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I have a '23 MX, seemingly on HW4 - Bought it with EAP and decided to try a one-month subscription to FSD. Suffice it to say, all I did was waste $100 as the only thing I got was traffic light control and a grayed out FSD button. How would I know when it is safe to try again? Calling service and hotline have no answers. I'm on 2023.20.9 (So they did switch my branch to an fsd branch after the upgrade but none of the features actually work)
 
I have a '23 MX, seemingly on HW4 - Bought it with EAP and decided to try a one-month subscription to FSD. Suffice it to say, all I did was waste $100 as the only thing I got was traffic light control and a grayed out FSD button. How would I know when it is safe to try again? Calling service and hotline have no answers. I'm on 2023.20.9 (So they did switch my branch to an fsd branch after the upgrade but none of the features actually work)
Just wait a few minutes. someone will reply with a convincing post that it is your fault to expect FSD button, and the conversation will restart.
 
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I have a '23 MX, seemingly on HW4 - Bought it with EAP and decided to try a one-month subscription to FSD. Suffice it to say, all I did was waste $100 as the only thing I got was traffic light control and a grayed out FSD button. How would I know when it is safe to try again? Calling service and hotline have no answers. I'm on 2023.20.9 (So they did switch my branch to an fsd branch after the upgrade but none of the features actually work)
Click on this site and when you see a software version higher than your current software that includes a 11.4.x FSD Beta it will work. An example of what would work: 23.26.5 with FSD Beta [red small number] 11.4.6.

Tesla is just now releasing 11.4.6 to original testers and (hopefully) that may turn out to be the stable version that can be release to all. It will take at least a couple of weeks to test.

 
Tesla sells, gives free trials, and allows subscriptions to FSD, which doesn't include FSD Beta as has always been the case. They have rejected refunds to those questioning the inability to use Beta, because Beta cannot be subscribed to. It's an early access testing program. You can still be suspended from it and then it reverts to just regular FSD.
I think the confusion here is that FSD is currently only available in beta. However there is an “early access” group (the groups from “the button”) that are testing the latest version of the beta before it goes into the mainline builds (11.4.x).

So maybe this whole back and forth is just a potato/potatoe type misunderstanding? :)
 
SO Elon just tweeted that he tested FSD V12 alpha and it's mind blowing, does he mean FSD capability or FSD beta or Autosteer on city streets. Does he even know ?
While he has made the mistake before (and could again) he didn't in this case. He doesn't say FSD at all but is responding to a FSD Beta Xeet (or what ever in the hell you call it) from someone else.

"I tested the version 12 alpha...."

Screenshot 2023-07-27 at 12.53.38 PM.png
 
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Tesla is deceptive in describing "FSD capability". I also lost $200. If you didn't spend time on these forums, you might think you actually should get the FSD that you paid for. But then Tesla also told me I'd get my model Y in 0-6 weeks. When that didn't happen I kept getting estimates for "next week" until I finally got it on week 24. Does anyone believe that they really couldn't predict an accurate time estimate? I like the car but I don't like the company's complete disregard for customer service.
 
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Does anyone believe that they really couldn't predict an accurate time estimate? I like the car but I don't like the company's complete disregard for customer service.
For now they don't have to be accurate or considerate because they have little to no competition. When they do, they'll start to expend more resources to make those things work.

And then there won't be any more war stories to tell grandchildren about what it was like to get an electric car...
 
I am buying a HW4 Model Y and transferring my FSD from my Model 3.
I am in the FSD Beta program on the 3.
I understand FSD Beta (autosteer on city streets) won't be available for some time.

Does anyone know if I will have to reapply for FSD Beta (safety score stuff) to get autosteer on city streets when it comes out for my new HW4 Model Y?

Or will it be available because I, the driver, already was in the program on my previous car?
 
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I am buying a HW4 Model Y and transferring my FSD from my Model 3.
I am in the FSD Beta program on the 3.
I understand FSD Beta (autosteer on city streets) won't be available for some time.

Does anyone know if I will have to reapply for FSD Beta (safety score stuff) to get autosteer on city streets when it comes out for my new HW4 Model Y?

Or will it be available because I, the driver, already was in the program on my previous car?
They did away with the safety score, you just have to wait until the software catches up.

I too have a Y on order, trading in my 2022 w/FSDb, and transferring the FSD option. Tesla also has not given me a trade in number for my 2022 Y, it’s been over a week since I started the process. I’m probably just going to cancel the order and wait for the refreshed Y or the cybertruck reservation I have. I also don’t like the idea of having to wait until who knows when I’ll get FSDb back.
 
They did away with the safety score, you just have to wait until the software catches up.

I too have a Y on order, trading in my 2022 w/FSDb, and transferring the FSD option. Tesla also has not given me a trade in number for my 2022 Y, it’s been over a week since I started the process. I’m probably just going to cancel the order and wait for the refreshed Y or the cybertruck reservation I have. I also don’t like the idea of having to wait until who knows when I’ll get FSDb back.
Thanks for the clarification. I wasn't looking forward to driving a 20 mile circle out in the country every day for a week to get my safety score up to snuff :).

I replied to the text message thread you start getting after you place your order and asked for the trade-in number. I got it within a couple of hours. Maybe coincidence but I did find through this process that it helps to be a squeaky wheel. Also leaving a voicemail or talking to the local delivery team seems to grease the wheels a bit.