I hate to ask, but where are these new features going? AP or FSD?

[Garlan Garner]

Here is the first feature that I know of to enter the arena of some sort of Car self Driving.

Concerning the new - old - new - old...whatever rules of what AP and FSD are supposed to be....which program is getting this feature?

Its titled in the article autopilot detects stop lines intersections.

Tesla Autopilot now detects stop lines in move to handle intersections


How are we to know if what we receive or don't receive is right or wrong?

 

[Knightshade]

AP is for divided highways only, and ONLY autosteer and tacc- so it will never care about stop lines.

Operation in city/urban environments is explicitly an FSD feature- crappy written headline or not.

 

[Derek Kessler]

All new features will go to FSD. Period.

 

[Garlan Garner]

All new features will go to FSD. Period.

So AP is now capped?

There is no new highway stuff that can come out?

 

[Knightshade]

So AP is now capped?

There is no new highway stuff that can come out?

AP has only existed for like 5 days.

it's specifically a sub-set of what used to be EAP- TACC and autosteer only.

That was to satisfy the people who kept saying they would buy TACC for a couple grand but not full EAP for 5k.


Everything else is FSD now going forward. All new features go to FSD (which will require an upgrade to HW3 for most of the new ones anyway)

 

[Derek Kessler]

So AP is now capped?

There is no new highway stuff that can come out?

Autopilot as offered today is adaptive cruise control, active lane keeping, and emergency braking. Nothing is promised for the future. In fact, it lines up very nicely with the old driver assistance features offered on the old Autopilot 1 hardware. While these features may be improved, Autopilot is feature complete.

Enhanced Autopilot (no longer available) offered TACC, Autosteer, autopark, Summon, and Navigate on Autopilot. NoA still needs substantial work and Advanced Summon is still not publicly released, but there's nothing else that was promised or likely to be added.

Full Self Driving is everything beyond that. Hands-free, driver-free, driving on all roads in all conditions. Any and all new features, like the recently revealed detection of stop lines, will be part of FSD.

 

[outie]

Autopilot as offered today is adaptive cruise control, active lane keeping, and emergency braking. Nothing is promised for the future. In fact, it lines up very nicely with the old driver assistance features offered on the old Autopilot 1 hardware. While these features may be improved, Autopilot is feature complete.

Enhanced Autopilot (no longer available) offered TACC, Autosteer, autopark, Summon, and Navigate on Autopilot. NoA still needs substantial work and Advanced Summon is still not publicly released, but there's nothing else that was promised or likely to be added.

Full Self Driving is everything beyond that. Hands-free, driver-free, driving on all roads in all conditions. Any and all new features, like the recently revealed detection of stop lines, will be part of FSD.

Tesla is currently quite specific about the FSD features. I don’t know if calling everything beyond that is the right term, especially the driverless part. They might have an Enhanced FSD down the road that’s for everything beyond that.

Also don’t forget EM said in the interview that FSD will be feature complete by year end, which coincide with the upcoming features to be released later this year (see below).

Full Self-Driving Capability

• Navigate on Autopilot: automatic driving from highway on-ramp to off-ramp including interchanges and overtaking slower cars.
• Autopark: both parallel and perpendicular spaces.
• Summon: your parked car will come find you anywhere in a parking lot. Really.

Coming later this year:

• Recognize and respond to traffic lights and stop signs.
• Automatic driving on city streets.

 

[Enginerd]

Am I mistaken that (legacy) EAP "on-ramp to off-ramp" w/ NOA can come to a complete stop after exiting? I think I've experienced this and seen it (i1Tesla). Perhaps stopline detection is already in the V9 software and we (verygreen) are just becoming aware of it? If so, then it could be improved and leveraged for FSD NOA city driving.

 

[Eno Deb]

Concerning the new - old - new - old...whatever rules of what AP and FSD are supposed to be....which program is getting this feature?

Its titled in the article autopilot detects stop lines intersections.

Tesla Autopilot now detects stop lines in move to handle intersections

This will almost certainly not appear as a feature on its own, but will be part of the announced city driving feature, which is FSD.

I find it interesting that they are testing this with a HW2.5 ECU. If FSD was HW3 only, why would they go to the trouble of training the old neural net to recognize stop lines?

 

[Knightshade]

This will almost certainly not appear as a feature on its own, but will be part of the announced city driving feature, which is FSD.

I find it interesting that they are testing this with a HW2.5 ECU. If FSD was HW3 only, why would they go to the trouble of training the old neural net to recognize stop lines?

Naah, not that surprising- all they're doing is testing recognition from a single camera... anything they learn from that can go right into the HW3 NN but a lot more as well.... from the article-

According to verygreen, only the main front-facing camera is used to detect them and there’s no metric or value assigned to the lines – only “a bounding box in image space.” .... Tesla might be running the capability in shadow mode to see how accurately they can detect the stop lines.

I could actually see one useful place for HW2.5 knowing stop lines though- since NoA in EAP does on ramp to off ramp, and in some places highway ramps use stop lights and stop lines.... but since it's not a "real" intersection, just a "stop if red, go if green" situation, that might have been something they were planning to put into HW2.5 highway only NoA with old-style EAP

 

[Eno Deb]

Naah, not that surprising- all they're doing is testing recognition from a single camera... anything they learn from that can go right into the HW3 NN but a lot more as well.... from the article-

It's not that simple to isolate and transplant individual aspects object recognition from one neural net to another. Basically you have to re-train the new net. At least you'd already have a proven set of labeled training data though (the generation of which is the most work intensive part of the training).

 

[Derek Kessler]

Am I mistaken that (legacy) EAP "on-ramp to off-ramp" w/ NOA can come to a complete stop after exiting? I think I've experienced this and seen it (i1Tesla). Perhaps stopline detection is already in the V9 software and we (verygreen) are just becoming aware of it? If so, then it could be improved and leveraged for FSD NOA city driving.

It comes to a stop based entirely on mapping data — it warns "Navigate on Autopilot is ending in 600 feet" and starts counting and slowing down to that point. It's too far out to detect a stop line, and not every exit where NoA disengages has a stop line.

 

[Unpilot]

Am I mistaken that (legacy) EAP "on-ramp to off-ramp" w/ NOA can come to a complete stop after exiting? I think I've experienced this and seen it (i1Tesla). Perhaps stopline detection is already in the V9 software and we (verygreen) are just becoming aware of it? If so, then it could be improved and leveraged for FSD NOA city driving.

My car did this after exiting the interstate a couple times right at the stop line. But it also sort of slow drifted though as well..(or would have if I let it)

 

[notAnExpert]

Tesla is currently quite specific about the FSD features. I don’t know if calling everything beyond that is the right term, especially the driverless part. They might have an Enhanced FSD down the road that’s for everything beyond that.

That's exactly my concern about paying for FSD. Is it really the entire autonomous driving (if and when available) or will there be FSD+, EFSD, Really FSD, This Time We Mean it FSD in future for additional fee? They used to claim FSD was everything that would eventually be autonomous driving, but I don't see such bold statements anymore. Makes me wonder. Hope they clarify it soon.

Also, I don't know what exactly "Automatic driving on city streets" can or can't do. I hope they clarify that too. Why is recognizing and responding to traffic lights and stop signs listed separately from automatic driving? Automatic driving on city streets would obviously have to include recognizing and responding to traffic lights and stop signs. But automatic driving would have to deal with countless more things. Yet they don't list those things prior to automatic driving on city streets. Reading between lines, I wonder this means Automatic Driving on City Streets is merely auto speed and steer on marked city streets with the ability to automatically stop and go and traffic lights and stop signs. Hope clarity comes soon.

 

[Uncle Paul]

My EAP has constantly been enhanced and upgraded over the past couple years. Now has Exit/entrance freeway control, NoA and summons. I believe it will continue to get better over time as Tesla technology advances.

FSD will also come with additional feature sets, and it too will get better over time.

I have observed two enhanced learning systems. First the EAP has gotten better, as have I in understanding better where it excells and where it struggles.

For best cruising pleasure I work my way into the center freeway lanes and let autopilot do it's thing. It is fantastic. I have learned that if I attempt to use it in the far right or left lanes, it struggles to be rock solid.

 

[Garlan Garner]

My car did this after exiting the interstate a couple times right at the stop line. But it also sort of slow drifted though as well..(or would have if I let it)

I have never had my car stop at the stop line.

 

[Knightshade]

Why is recognizing and responding to traffic lights and stop signs listed separately from automatic driving? Automatic driving on city streets would obviously have to include recognizing and responding to traffic lights and stop signs. .

This one is easy.

Think of the difference between regular autopilot, and navigate on autopilot.

Now apply that difference to city driving.

Just recognizing lights and signs (and idiot pedestrians jaywalking I suppose) gets you the first one- you can drive along a city street with the car lane-keeping, and stopping/going as appropriate..but that's it..... Nav on FSD though would also handle things like putting you in the appropriate lane, passing other cars when appropriate, and navigating complex intersections and turns on city streets.

 

[PhaseWhite]

Here is the first feature that I know of to enter the arena of some sort of Car self Driving.

Concerning the new - old - new - old...whatever rules of what AP and FSD are supposed to be....which program is getting this feature?

Its titled in the article autopilot detects stop lines intersections.

Tesla Autopilot now detects stop lines in move to handle intersections

How are we to know if what we receive or don't receive is right or wrong?

"Intersection Line Detection" is a primitive meaning it doesn't provide any FSD or Autopilot features on it's own. When Tesla implements an actual feature like stopping at a stop light it will make use of multiple primitives like this along with some control logic.

So Tesla could implement a safety feature that leverages this primitive and deploy it to all cares regardless of autopilot or FSD being enabled, and they could also use this for a self driving feature that enables stopping at intersections in city streets.

So technically I think the answer is both, but I'm also pointing out that I think the question is flawed.

 

[PhaseWhite]

I have never had my car stop at the stop line.

I've also observed my car stopping at the stop line after I existed the interstate with NOA enabled and no cars in front of me when I approached a red light. I suspected they enabled some sort of stop light detection (as a safety backup) at the time but in lew of this stop line detection, it was possibly a test of this. It's also possible it was stopping based on maps data of where the intersection was but it was pretty accurate.

 

[drj3]

I don't know why there is all this doom and gloom about the future of EAP and assumption that the current EAP features won't continue to improve with time. Tesla has said nothing of the sort and Tesla has a history of improving existing features. Now I don't expect to get new features with EAP only (city autopilot driving and responding to traffic lights and stop signs), but the Tesla autopilot page Autopilot implies that EAP owners may even get smart summon when it is released. I expect that tweaks and improvements to autopark and NOA will also be pushed to EAP owners. I have EAP now, but don't plan on upgrading to FSD until there is more clarity on what it will do and if new hardware is included if needed for future features. The current descriptions mention only software upgrades as a part of the FSD package and don't really promise that you might someday get autonomous driving. In fact they say that the features require active driver supervision.

"The currently enabled features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous. The activation and use of these features are dependent on achieving reliability far in excess of human drivers as demonstrated by billions of miles of experience, as well as regulatory approval, which may take longer in some jurisdictions. As these self-driving features evolve, your car will be continuously upgraded through over-the-air software updates."