I live in a condo. The main breaker is only 70A. Now what? [Resolved]

[Ulmo]

With the 400amp main panel I would have an electrician look, maybe it will be easy to get that upped to 100amp breaker per condo.

On the electrical upgrade my thought would be see if an electrician feels what you have is a legit fire hazard, pitch that to the HOA, then if that premises is accepted work in upgrades.

Great approach!

 

[Ulmo]

Or better yet, if the load calcs would support it you could replace the single 30a 240v breaker with one that was dual 30a 240v. (but yeah, unlikely that the load calcs would support it)

Eaton BR 2-30 Amp 2 Pole BQ (Independent Trip) Quad Circuit Breaker-BQ230230 - The Home Depot

But this is fantasy regardless since the Eaton BR series breakers are not listed or classified for use in a Challenger panel. Even the "special" "CL or CH" series breakers that Eaton makes that are classified for use in competitors panels (by UL rating) are not rated for Challenger panels from what I can tell (it might be mechanically a totally different size or bus rating).

I am very curious if anyone does make tandem 240v (2 pole) breakers for Challenger panels. It would be good to know.

Though again, swapping that panel out with a new one should be quite inexpensive and then you would be able to get new modern breaker options.

Circuit Breakers, Motor Controls, Switches/Disconnects, and Other Electrical Hardware - BayBreakers.com supplies breakers for old panels. I used them all the time. Luckily, I was half a dozen blocks from them at the time so I would just go pop in to their counter, but they do online and phone order all the time throughout the country and maybe world.

 

[Ulmo]

Would there never be a time (say if only charging on 120v 15a/12a) that the thermal loss of the battery would outstrip the heating ability and so the battery would never achieve a temperature at which it would actually start charging it?

Not in San Diego.

In other areas with snow? Yes, indeed.

 

[Akikiki]

Maybe you want to finish reading the entire thread before you keep posting. There's a happy ending.

 

[Ulmo]

Maybe you want to finish reading the entire thread before you keep posting. There's a happy ending.

I'm from Santa Cruz. The pathway is most the journey.

 

[Akikiki]

Have no idea what that means. Sorry, wish I had never said anything

 

[Ulmo]

Hey all, OP here. Quick update.

Now that summer has fully set in and the temps are up, I've started using the central AC in my condo. When the AC system starts up, the inrush current usually trips the DCC. I guess that means it works. The downside is that it basically makes charging impossible whenever the AC is on because the 15-minute timeout cycle of the DCC usually aligns with the duty cycle of the AC system.

When the AC is running, I can start charging the car and the DCC won't trip. It only trips when the reverse happens (the car is already charging and the AC system's startup current surge trips it).

At this point I'm starting to think about possible solutions. The AC system is very old (30 years). I haven't replaced it because it still works, and why fix what isn't broken? A friend of mine suggested a startup capacitor kit. Seems a lot cheaper than replacing the whole system. Any tips?

Expensive: Inverter Air Conditioner system, such as a mini-split. The inverters keep the motor running, and also, they are designed to only put in as much energy as needed, so the motors are able to run and start at low amps. Sounds like it would be a better fit for that situation, but maybe not worth the money and effort.

 

[andy92782]

The startup cap seems to have done the trick.

With the car set to 16A charge, I watched the AC system cycle on several times without tripping the DCC.

 

[Sophias_dad]

The startup cap seems to have done the trick.

With the car set to 16A charge, I watched the AC system cycle on several times without tripping the DCC.

View attachment 435128

Call me surprised... See how high you can go before the DCC trips!

 

[Cosmacelf]

The startup cap seems to have done the trick.

With the car set to 16A charge, I watched the AC system cycle on several times without tripping the DCC.
]

Awesome. Can you link the Amazon page for the startup cap kit you bought?

 

[andy92782]

Awesome. Can you link the Amazon page for the startup cap kit you bought?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003FNMADE/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

They sell a different part number for larger compressors. This one's rated for units up to 3 tons. (BTW - I originally thought mine was a 2.5 ton unit but turns out it's 3. I misread the part number).

 

[DavidElg]

I can't believe I read all 14 pages of this, but I was hooked. I feel like I experienced Andy's journey from a future Tesla owner about to throw in the towel and cancel his order, to a seasoned veteran of National Electrical Code and local HOA regulations. The icing on the cake was finding the solution for the AC startup issues. Bravo.

 

[Cosmacelf]

I can't believe I read all 14 pages of this, but I was hooked. I feel like I experienced Andy's journey from a future Tesla owner about to throw in the towel and cancel his order, to a seasoned veteran of National Electrical Code and local HOA regulations. The icing on the cake was finding the solution for the AC startup issues. Bravo.

Hey, you could edit all these interesting threads, assemble them into a book, and sell ... maybe 5 copies! Awesome! Actually, I wonder what the market would be for edited technical discussion threads...

 

[F14Scott]

Seems like a lot of steps.

I would have just removed your old home AC unit, gaining 30 amps, and then connected a hose from the vents in your Tesla to your house. Then, whenever you are home with your car, you could turn on the car's climate control to cool your home, all the while charging the Tesla at high amperage and running the car's climate control on shore power.

So simple...

 

[darth_vad3r]

Seems like a lot of steps.

I would have just removed your old home AC unit, gaining 30 amps, and then connected a hose from the vents in your Tesla to your house. Then, whenever you are home with your car, you could turn on the car's climate control to cool your home, all the while charging the Tesla at high amperage and running the car's climate control on shore power.

So simple...

It’s so obvious now. Alternately, just sleeping in the car when it is hot is cheaper than connecting a hose.

 

[Akikiki]

It’s so obvious now. Alternately, just sleeping in the car when it is hot is cheaper than connecting a hose.

Hey, you laugh. But many times out here when the power goes out for hours at night, I get a pillow and head for the car. I've spelt til daylight more than once. If it wasn't for my jammies, I could just put the car in Drive and go to work.

 

[darth_vad3r]

If it wasn't for my jammies, I could just put the car in Drive and go to work.

C’mon. Plan ahead!

Seriously though, yes ... it’s a great power backup. Once Netflix is available, the whole family can sit in the car to stay cool and be entertained on a hot night with no AC inside.

 

[F14Scott]

It’s so obvious now. Alternately, just sleeping in the car when it is hot is cheaper than connecting a hose.

Now you're just being ridiculous.

 

[Miguel1]

I'm in a similar situation, my main breaker for my condo is 80a. My condo is on 2nd floor and all electrical is in garage (far from my parking space). Based on my load calculations (66-75a) even a 15a will not work. There does appear to be a spot for a new meter, although based on my power usage, its cheaper for me to tie into my exisitng tiered meter. My existing panel does not have an unused (with no wire) breaker.

I believe I have a few options but would like to know if I one option is better (or cheaper) than others before asking for quotes.
1. Use the DCC device installed downstairs in garage
2. Upgrade main breaker from 80a (to 100a+), have subpanel installed, and leave existing panel and wiring to condo alone. Install higher than 15a to EV.
3. Upgrade main breaker from 80a and have wiring to condo and panel upgraded, then have a breaker fed back down to garage. install higher than 15a to EV.
4. Try to get a 15 amp on existing line with no changes to wiring on panel.
5. have LADWP install a TOU meter in open spot.

any input would be appreciated.

 

[Sophias_dad]

Where did you find the 66-75A? Maybe post a picture of your panel....

1) The DCC is a last resort, IMHO. Its expensive to buy and install, and then you need to worry about when one or the other device is gonna get shut off.

2) I wouldn't be so sure that you can just upgrade the main breaker like that.. the building might be near its limit. Also, you'd probably have to pass the 100+amp through the subpanel(with an 80 amp breaker sending much of the capacity up to your condo). I'd probably go this route.

3) This is much like 2, but you need some pretty hefty wire to get upstairs and back down. Don't forget the wire and breaker should be oversized by 25% from what you expect the continuous EV load to be(well, at least the line coming back down), the line going up should still be somewhat oversized because a non-trivial percentage of its load is expected to be continuous.

4) I'd be interested in why you think 15A is too much for your current panel. Unless you have an electric stove and AC and clothes dryer, I'd think your other loads would be manageable.

5) I don't know the costs involved in a new meter.