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In a parallel universe where there we only had EV’s, what would an ICE review look like?

Dazguy

Member
Jan 25, 2020
53
35
Ireland
Was just pondering what the world would be like if we all only drove EV’s and someone tried to introduce an ICE car..... I guess the review would go like this.....

“Unfortunately with this car you have to stop in a garage every two to three hundred miles as you can’t just charge it up at home, how inconvenient”

“You get given a key which you have to bring with you everywhere to get into the car”

“Now don’t run this car in your garage or stand behind it when it’s on as it expels toxic gases which will kill you and slowly kill the planet”

“For some reason they have filled the Front Boot with a massive engine so don’t expect to be able to fit anything into you’re frank”

“Leg room in the back is fairly shocking as there is a big box in the middle of the foot well, which forces someone in the middle to straddle it like a horse”

“There are no security or dash cameras in the car, so don’t expect to have any recordings of accidents”

“And to make things even worse, when you have to drive someone where else to fill it up, they then charge you more than three times the price!”

“Breaks also don’t last long in this car, and you’ll end up having to pay over €300 to change them every 4-5 years.”

“You also have to bring the car to get serviced every year... yes every year!”
 

Zakalwe

Member
Oct 16, 2020
400
371
UK
I suspect that it'd be similar to the old adage about tobacco being banned if it was discovered today.
For a start buying petrol would be nigh on impossible, certainly petrol with all of the additives that a modern ICE needs. If it was possible to get fuel, then they'd start it, wonder in horror at the pipe at the back spewing out lethal gasses and promptly shut it off. They'd then take the maker for a nice long lie down in a padded room.
 

pgkevet

Active Member
Jul 1, 2019
1,153
1,004
mid wales
Hmmm...depends on which era car you refer to.
Contemporary ICE has all the potential electronic refinements and remote access options anyway so the review might mention potential toxic gases when being used but make the points that in the event of accident and fire it's easier to extinguish and control. That winter driving range is hardly compromised and there's no need to forward plan any trip - quick, easy energy top-ups everywhere.
Personal view that if/when renewables get sorted with overcapacity (to allow for overcast and low wind days) and overcapacity is used to make/store H2 we're going to look back at the bad old battery days of lugging huge unnecessary weight around and waste time queuing to charge at log-jammed chargers with transport being the domain of the rich and the less well off being stuck with cars running on deteriorated batteries they have to pay to scrap...
 

Yev000

Active Member
May 3, 2019
1,262
825
Knaphill
Interesting thought experiment. I'm trying to understand a universe where the laws of physics make it lucrative to use a liquid fuel *after* most people use electricity.

Presumably we had over 100 years to perfect the battery and the infrastructure....

Maybe for very large industrial applications?

If you had liquid fuel laying around - why didn't you use it before... If you didn't, where did it come from?

This is some Marvel or DC level stuff here... A portal to another dimension opens up and out pours a river of Crude oil... And we don't know what to do with the stuff. So maybe you are paid to use it instead of electric - you know, to get rid of it.
 

Fred2

Member
Sep 12, 2019
47
41
Uk
“Intriguing idea, but how will they finance the construction of enough petrol stations?”

Pricing gap probably wouldn’t be what it is today - presumably petrol wouldn’t have the 60p ish fuel duty & full VAT
 
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pgkevet

Active Member
Jul 1, 2019
1,153
1,004
mid wales
It's worth remembering that petrol took over from electric cars over a hundred years ago. ..Conveniently bought in tins from chemists and general stores. Just try buying enough angry pixies in a box you can carry and see how far that takes your BEV.
Once physisist accept that magnetic containment of fusion plasma works best the tinier the plasma chamber then well all be driving Mr Fusion..
 

Strategium

Member
Nov 18, 2019
77
110
Dundee, UK
Hmmm...depends on which era car you refer to.
Contemporary ICE has all the potential electronic refinements and remote access options anyway so the review might mention potential toxic gases when being used but make the points that in the event of accident and fire it's easier to extinguish and control. That winter driving range is hardly compromised and there's no need to forward plan any trip - quick, easy energy top-ups everywhere.
Personal view that if/when renewables get sorted with overcapacity (to allow for overcast and low wind days) and overcapacity is used to make/store H2 we're going to look back at the bad old battery days of lugging huge unnecessary weight around and waste time queuing to charge at log-jammed chargers with transport being the domain of the rich and the less well off being stuck with cars running on deteriorated batteries they have to pay to scrap...
Wait a minute - if the premise here is a review of the introduction of ICE cars as a new technology, why do you assume 'there's no need to forward plan any trip - quick, easy energy top-ups everywhere'? Presumably in this scenario a national petrol/diesel station infrastructure would be lacking, just as it has been as BVEs roll out.

Therefore, the review would be pointing out this lack of refuelling infrastructure, along with many other limitations, viz., you have to rely upon a regular supply network for petroleum products to keep your car moving, the national transport infrastructure will grind to a halt should a strike/war etc interrupt supply - I remember the cases of long queues at petrol stations and panic buying on the back of real or rumoured fuel shortages...

By switching from BEVs to oil based fuels you also make the country dependent upon an energy product mostly supplied from politically unstable regions. Worse still, you have to move the fuel vast distances around the world via tankers and pipelines, causing yet more pollution and extra cost, you need a refinery industry to convert crude oil to fuel for cars, again more pollution and extra cost and no opportunity to adapt renewable sources to power your vehicle. Cars full of lethal explosive fuels parked outside domestic properties? Somehow I don't think so...

While your situation may vary, I rarely drive more than 250 miles in a day, meaning that almost all of the time I only ever charge my car at home in my garage. Why would I give that up? At least in the summer this is also done using energy from solar panels. If history had played out differently, I think introducing ICE cars would certainly be a non-starter, even if you allowed them to launch with the relatively hyper efficient engine technologies of modern ICE vehicles, which in reality took over a century to develop.
 
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pgkevet

Active Member
Jul 1, 2019
1,153
1,004
mid wales
Wait a minute - if the premise here is a review of the introduction of ICE cars as a new technology, why do you assume 'there's no need to forward plan any trip - quick, easy energy top-ups everywhere'? Presumably in this scenario a national petrol/diesel station infrastructure would be lacking, just as it has been as BVEs roll out.

Therefore, the review would be pointing out this lack of refuelling infrastructure, along with many other limitations, viz., you have to rely upon a regular supply network for petroleum products to keep your car moving, the national transport infrastructure will grind to a halt should a strike/war etc interrupt supply - I remember the cases of long queues at petrol stations and panic buying on the back of real or rumoured fuel shortages...

By switching from BEVs to oil based fuels you also make the country dependent upon an energy product mostly supplied from politically unstable regions. Worse still, you have to move the fuel vast distances around the world via tankers and pipelines, causing yet more pollution and extra cost, you need a refinery industry to convert crude oil to fuel for cars, again more pollution and extra cost and no opportunity to adapt renewable sources to power your vehicle. Cars full of lethal explosive fuels parked outside domestic properties? Somehow I don't think so...

While your situation may vary, I rarely drive more than 250 miles in a day, meaning that almost all of the time I only ever charge my car at home in my garage. Why would I give that up? At least in the summer this is also done using energy from solar panels. If history had played out differently, I think introducing ICE cars would certainly be a non-starter, even if you allowed them to launch with the relatively hyper efficient engine technologies of modern ICE vehicles, which in reality took over a century to develop.
Luddite:D. Internal combustion engines have been run on ethanol and even woodgas so no need for any dependancy on political unstable sources! You're being browbeaten by lobbyists for Big Electricity trying to limit your freedoms. All these fuels are easily stockpiled in cans or cylinders behind a simple security fence while the roll-out of this revolutionary new mobility happens. Just think- no more risk of impossibly difficult to extinguish fires in your driveway or the need for firesafe heavy lifting gear to pick up a burning EV and dump it into the lorry tank - a simple foam spray can save your neighbourhood. Ethanol is greener than electricity - simple fermentation without blotting the landscape with pylons and windmills and wires and any waste is easily used as fertilizer for the next crop.
 

CyberGus

Not Just a Member
May 5, 2020
820
1,773
Austin, TX
A few years ago, researchers unveiled a miniaturized methanol-based fuel cell. "Never again will you have a dead phone! Just top it off!" It seemed doubtful such a contraption would make it past airport security, and what if it leaks in my pants??
 

Strategium

Member
Nov 18, 2019
77
110
Dundee, UK
Luddite:D. Internal combustion engines have been run on ethanol and even woodgas so no need for any dependancy on political unstable sources! You're being browbeaten by lobbyists for Big Electricity trying to limit your freedoms. All these fuels are easily stockpiled in cans or cylinders behind a simple security fence while the roll-out of this revolutionary new mobility happens. Just think- no more risk of impossibly difficult to extinguish fires in your driveway or the need for firesafe heavy lifting gear to pick up a burning EV and dump it into the lorry tank - a simple foam spray can save your neighbourhood. Ethanol is greener than electricity - simple fermentation without blotting the landscape with pylons and windmills and wires and any waste is easily used as fertilizer for the next crop.
Well then, I like your thinking after all. So in the parallel universe where ICE cars are brought in to replace BEVs, perhaps ICE cars run on biofuels will be touted by the Green Lobby as the real eco friendly alternative to electricity? Close down the cobalt mines; huge plantations of biofuel crops, all that carbon captured, bright, sunlit uplands and alcohol lakes... You might be on to something. Or is that just moonshine?
 
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pgkevet

Active Member
Jul 1, 2019
1,153
1,004
mid wales
Well then, I like your thinking after all. So in the parallel universe where ICE cars are brought in to replace BEVs, perhaps ICE cars run on biofuels will be touted by the Green Lobby as the real eco friendly alternative to electricity? Close down the cobalt mines; huge plantations of biofuel crops, all that carbon captured, bright, sunlit uplands and alcohol lakes... You might be on to something. Or is that just moonshine?
My first convert! Combustion product of ethanol is simply water and CO2 - and less CO2 than was taken up with growing the crop - so net reduction in global levels - yay! As you deduced no need for damaging mining or slve labour, no need to send all the worlds cobalt and nickel to China for processing before shpping it back to batt manufacturers (a huge carbon footprint). Even better the by-products of the fermentation can deal with food shortages - marmite for all!
Further you avoid those nasty toxic oils used in wind turbines and HV relays, toxic insulator manufacture, global copper shortages, dead sea birds and damaged coastal marine areas, rare earth metals (China dependant so political again). And I'll bet that with a bit of political will we could make ceramic engine blocks to reduce steel production too.
It's all in the spin..:)
 

Wol747

Member
Aug 26, 2017
768
309
Tea Gardens
I've always imagined a universe where little battery driven boxes enabled everyone to text messages to one another.
One day a genius invented an app on the box whereby one could actually SPEAK to another person - even someone in another country!
Next day, no-one was ever texting again.
It's a funny old world......
 

Dilly

Active Member
Feb 24, 2020
1,573
1,183
Norfolk
No one has mentioned the popularity of converting electric cars to ICE
imagine the joy of the roar of a 6 litre V8 in a model 3 😂
 

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