Range indicator malfunction, sudden loss of greater than 10% battery capacity, 6% loss of total range since I picked up from service center on Friday are all factors that don't include degradation. Maybe Tesla will feel the same as you. Hopefully not but that is the reason for me trying to put the word out. Thanks for your input.
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Infinite Mile Battery Warranty [Now] Being Honored By Tesla [Issue Resolved]
- Thread starter HMARTINPT
- Start date
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
The losses you refer to as "sudden" are likely just gradual declines that appear to be more sudden because the BMS uses various factors to rate the capacity so, for example, it can re-appraise the capacity better after a full charge/discharge cycle. You have admitted that those were only periodic occurrences so it makes complete sense that the capacity number could jump in increments even though the degradation happens gradually.
juliusa
Active Member
Well then Tesla needs to add that to the warranty in writing and not replace other owner's batteries for the same problems that I have been going through and siting that the battery was covered under "warranty"
gilscales
Banned
Thats crazy! what with Volvo's unlimited mile and 8 year drivetrain warranty and all they should have replaced that free of charge....?
209 miles after 240k miles is normal degradation - so says Tesla.
You and others can bring all the research material and lab work and papers written by esteemed researchers all over the world. All they have done is extrapolated their lab results - and that means nothing, zilch in the real world. It is all just theoretical. I can also do some experiments in my backyard and publish a paper that an EV should only lose 18.8% capacity after 350k miles based on my 2 day test results.
People here who pound their desks and say this is abnormal degradation are being intellectually dishonest.
There has not been a SINGLE company in the world that has produced an EV that can drive this many numbers of miles to gather any practical statistical evidence to say how much a car's Lion battery should degrade after quarter million miles driven over many summers and winters in Houston heat.
So at this time Tesla is only entity that can look up and say with some degree of certainty that what a degradation should look after 6 years and 240k miles driven hard in hot climes. (and even for them there are probably a statistically small number of Teslas at that mileage). And they say this is normal degradation. So just count your luck and move on.
You and others can bring all the research material and lab work and papers written by esteemed researchers all over the world. All they have done is extrapolated their lab results - and that means nothing, zilch in the real world. It is all just theoretical. I can also do some experiments in my backyard and publish a paper that an EV should only lose 18.8% capacity after 350k miles based on my 2 day test results.
People here who pound their desks and say this is abnormal degradation are being intellectually dishonest.
There has not been a SINGLE company in the world that has produced an EV that can drive this many numbers of miles to gather any practical statistical evidence to say how much a car's Lion battery should degrade after quarter million miles driven over many summers and winters in Houston heat.
So at this time Tesla is only entity that can look up and say with some degree of certainty that what a degradation should look after 6 years and 240k miles driven hard in hot climes. (and even for them there are probably a statistically small number of Teslas at that mileage). And they say this is normal degradation. So just count your luck and move on.
What are you taking about? He is still on his original battery pack.
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
Well, no, I understood it wouldn't be covered by warranty. It still seemed unfair to have such major expenses after only 80,000 miles but I couldn't find any reason why it should be covered. So I paid to have both the transmission and twin turbos replaced. We sold the Volvo after taking delivery of my wife's Long-Range Model 3. That LR Model 3 made me realize the expensive twin-turbo Volvo wasn't very fast anymore. That's the thing about Tesla's, to get the same amount of performance you need a very complicated, expensive and highly stressed gasoline car.
Sorry, I got confused between various posts and all the capslock.
gilscales
Banned
I know, I was posting this a a joke because no one else has offered such a generous powertrain warranty except Tesla.
It still is unfair to the OP who has said (i'm guessing here but probably 50 times) that his degradation is expected and NOT covered under warranty BUT he has also stated other problems such as being stranded with 16 miles left on the range indicator after driving 139 miles using 360 wh/mi while starting from 100% so thats only about 50 kw usable or over 35% degradation.
we know Tesla does not cover this but no one has ever posted anything close to that and its the other problems he is talking about (Tesla has replaced batteries for this exact reason before) Tesla also had told him his battery range indicator 100% showed 212 miles while 2 days later he only gets to 200 miles, OP has a valid argument that if they are going to replace some peoples batteries for the exact same reason then they should not be able to tell him that this is normal.
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
There's an important principle here that you don't seem to understand.
Tesla is free to be more generous with their warranty at different times in their corporate history (or even with different people for reasons we do not need to know about because they don't affect us). Previous generosity does not obligate future generosity. If a court decides to release/parole an inmate, they do not need to release/parole every inmate with a similar sounding story. And corporations have fewer standards to follow and fewer restrictions on their behavior than any court system in the US.
Yet this hair-brained idea that since Tesla did it once (or ten times, it doesn't matter), they must continue to do it indefinitely, keeps repeating itself here like the movie "Groundhog Day".
gilscales
Banned
That is your opinion and I disagree.
Lets say your Volvo kept running out of gas when the gauge said that there was 1/8 or 1/4 tank or maybe the car just ran out of fuel when there was 1/8 to 1/4 tank as the fuel pick up in the tank just stopped working at the low level of fuel or instead of getting 28 miles a gallon after driving the crap out of your car it is down to getting 12 miles a gallon.
Now imagine your car was under an 8 year unlimited mile warranty, would you think there was a problem with the car and that should be covered?
Running out of juice when the indicator still shows 16 miles is not degradation and I would argue is much more of a problem in a limited range vehicle that takes a long time to "Re-fuel" and have very limited areas to do so from.
I think the hair-brained idea was Tesla's for offering a unlimited mile warranty for so long in the first place, as was the guaranteed buy back price, as well as FUSC, all these things cost them money and they realized they cannot afford to offer them going forward, that does not give them the right to choose different parameters for replacement batteries when the OP's battery is clearly defective.
I will wager that at sometime in the near future the battery will actually completely fail and OP will get a replacement under warranty.
I love Tesla cars now, this is my first but I am hooked for so many reasons that this will be one of many more I will buy in the future even if my battery gives out at 240,000 miles.
Sorry, but you really lost me there. I've seen hundreds, no doubt, of cars on the side of the road and with the one exception of the burning Beetle, couldn't tell you their model. People passing you honking are jerks, but you are really playing the pity party poorly saying it's because you have a Tesla. 10 seconds before they saw you, they couldn't care less than the 10 seconds after they passed you. People are annoyed at anyone driving slow, granted through no fault of your own, could you honestly say the model of any car you've ever passed?
I appreciate you sharing your experience, and this is good information, please stick to that. We've gotten a lot of analysis here on the data you've been able to provide. It's interesting the car died @ 5% in such a dramatic fashion. Hopefully we can get more data about your battery.
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
We don't know what the future holds but as long as the battery failure is not due to gradual deterioration then I think that IS covered under the battery warranty. I'm just saying they are under no obligation to interpret their warranty in anything but the plainest meaning of it which is that gradual deterioration is not covered (regardless of any goodwill replacements they may have done for others).
In order for you to buy a Tesla in the future, Tesla has to still be a going concern. We don't know everything the future holds.
gilscales
Banned
Well you got me there, how about this, Tesla has converted me to BEV's for as long as i'm able to buy and drive BEV's and Tesla will most likely be my first choice if they maintain their perceived superiority to me and are still a viable company producing said vehicles, if however they are no long a functioning company and I have other viable alternative BEV vehicles to choose from that entice me nearly as much as my Tesla model 3 then I reserve the right to purchase said vehicle over other ICE alternatives.
If no other viable BEV vehicles are attainable if or when Tesla closes it's doors because the oil companies "Killed the electric car" again then I will most likely go back to an ICE vehicle and that would suck really really bad.
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StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
gilscales
Banned
Who would have thought! that's crazy! it's like we were both human for a moment, haha!Hey, it looks like we found some common ground!
Of course, you do realize that Tesla could theoretically say that any amount of degradation is normal, right? The original poster needs to demand actual data to prove that the loss is caused by degradation. My gut says that they will find one module in there that has an insane number of dead strings (10+).
If you mean the page that I linked, that was not based on lab results. It was based on surveys of actual Tesla owners in the real world, albeit with the numbers extrapolated beyond 150k miles. What surveys have shown is that typically degradation is about 8.5±1% at 150k miles or so, and that nearly all degradation happens within the first 30,000 miles or so, beyond which the packs continue to lose only (IIRC) about half a percent every 30k miles beyond that.
So nominally, you would expect the pack to be down by about 10.2±1% at 250k. You would not expect the pack to hit 75% until over a million miles. So something is unusual. Whether it is the battery, the driving conditions, something else wrong with the car, leaving the car charged to 100% every day (or other abuse), or something else entirely is unclear, but although there is not a huge amount of evidence, all the evidence available strongly suggests that the car in question is an outlier for some reason.
The only question is whether that reason is something that should reasonably be covered under the warranty (e.g. a massively failed module) or not (e.g. leaving the car fully charged for months at a time).
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