Initial trailer pulling report - 90D and Airstream 22ft Bambi Sport

[JimVandegriff]

I forgot my main question: Has this post been addressed any further? I ordered an equalizer weight distribution hitch for WD as well as sway control (although I did not experience any issues with the 16'Sport I rented and it had only the factory hitch) - but do not know if you have had any negative issues using the WD hitch.

I know I will be planning on putting any weight far aft in the trailer because it starts with a high tongue weight. But I do not fully understand P90D's post above. If nothing else I know it is possible to adjust this hitch to essentially provide no WD, and use only as a Sway control, but I am wondering if I should just cancel the equalizer if in fact it can have a damaging effect. Does anyone have further information on this?

Ohmman has taken the lead on this investigation. You might start to explore this question in his thread here: Ohmman's Airstream Adventures. Another thread addressing this is here: Bosal Hitch Adapter Loosening
I personally will not pull a trailer without anti-sway bars. I've seen too many swaying trailers in my time on the road. I do have a conversation started with my service manager, but have not received a definitive answer about the equalizer hitch and the Bowsal hitch receiver. I will probably replace my Tesla supplied Bowsal hitch receiver with a draw-tite hitch receiver unless Tesla is coming out with a different system.

 

[ohmman]

I will probably replace my Tesla supplied Bowsal hitch receiver with a draw-tite hitch receiver unless Tesla is coming out with a different system.

As it turns out, I was at Folsom-Palladio Supercharger today and parked next to a Model 3. The owner was a Tesla engineer who spent three months working on the folding seats for the Model X. He didn't seem absolutely certain, but he did think that they redesigned the hitch recently. When I pressed him on it, he said something about the accessory hitch so he may be confusing it with ditching the accessory hitch in the past. Either way, I took it as news that there is some hitch related conversation going on at Tesla HQ.

 

[JimVandegriff]

As it turns out, I was at Folsom-Palladio Supercharger today and parked next to a Model 3. The owner was a Tesla engineer who spent three months working on the folding seats for the Model X. He didn't seem absolutely certain, but he did think that they redesigned the hitch recently. When I pressed him on it, he said something about the accessory hitch so he may be confusing it with ditching the accessory hitch in the past. Either way, I took it as news that there is some hitch related conversation going on at Tesla HQ.

Good news! I agree that it is an indication of some hitch conversation at Tesla HQ. I hope to get some info this week from my service advisor.

 

[wycolo]

> I've seen too many swaying trailers in my time on the road. [J.V.]

I've given a trailer axle neg camber (like a racing wheelchair) to avoid sway and it did not sway. But the tires were run rock hard so not sure if it proved anything. I've heard others swear that it should be pos camber but who really knows. I've only noticed sway with empty trailers and that is rather a moot issue as long as the tractor has sufficient weight of its own on the rear axle and you watch your speed.

Keep the loaded trailer's center of gravity as far forward of the axle as possible up to the max tongue weight allowed by the hitch.
--

 

[ohmman]

> I've seen too many swaying trailers in my time on the road. [J.V.]

I've given a trailer axle neg camber (like a racing wheelchair) to avoid sway and it did not sway. But the tires were run rock hard so not sure if it proved anything. I've heard others swear that it should be pos camber but who really knows. I've only noticed sway with empty trailers and that is rather a moot issue as long as the tractor has sufficient weight of its own on the rear axle and you watch your speed.

Keep the loaded trailer's center of gravity as far forward of the axle as possible up to the max tongue weight allowed by the hitch.
--

What you want, generally, is tension in the coupling. Doing the camber thing presumably works because it introduces drag on the camper behind the tow vehicle and tightens up the rig. That's why sway in the trailer can be mitigated by using the trailer brakes. The trailer draws back and the rig becomes taut and solid. Traditional WD hitches do this without reactionary tools. It doesn't make them better than the best managed WB hitch, but it removes some margin for error.

At least, that's how I see it based on the research I've done.

 

[Rossy]

Maybe a smaller, more aerodynamic camper like a T@B whould do the trick.... www.knaustabbert.de

View attachment 188038

Like this maybe?
While Water Retro 155 2014 Model. They don’t make this particular one any more. It’s too short for most people. Our tow range is ~130-149mikes at 55-65 mph with our 100D

 

[WSKCONDOR]

This discussion of the WD hitches and unintended extreme wear to the Tesla setup (hitch receiver) really has me concerned. I have cancelled my equal-I-zer WD hitch, at least for now. I have a little experience towing, and even a couple of experiences towing with my X 100D, and I feel like I am going to plan to be at 55MPH nearly all the time on freeway-almost as an upper limit due to range constraints. I think at that speed, sway should be less of an "extreme" issue, and I can rapidly decelerate if I perceive a problem. I did not really hear a lot of discussion of the built-in "sway management" effectiveness (although I know it is electronically sensed and a brake program).

But the wearing of the receiver, and that one still unanswered question on the "type" of frame construction that P90 wrote...I think is still unanswered in my mind. So I will take delivery of my Flying Cloud 20'FB and do the first 1000 miles with the stock hitch only (and of course wireless brake controller).

Another contributing factor for me is the heavy tongue weight of my particular trailer (and adding the WD hitch adds weight all the way forward). The tongue weight is a bit over the 500lbs to begin with (empty that is) but the fresh and gray tanks are all the way aft, and I intend to fill fresh before towing, as well as put any luggage back there. If I can figure out how to do it with the Airstream manual, I will try to get an exact tongue weight, and I know the total with full fresh will be about 4500lbs. My whole goal is to be within all manufacturer's specs and see if I can get this trip done on the existing supercharger network from Portland to LA. Hopefully I will not have a sway induced chocolate mess.

Did anyone install or have installed a wireless backup camera on an airstream? I am not sure if I should just bite the "dealership" bullet and ask them to install one. I do most stuff DIY, but am cringing a little at cutting aluminum the day I buy it.

I sure wish someone knew a way to splice in a wireless signal to the Tesla camera system, so when you had a trailer you could view THAT image-it would be so much cleaner than another added screen and need for another 12V connection in the cockpit.

 

[idoco]

Did anyone install or have installed a wireless backup camera on an airstream?

I have not received my trailer yet but plan on installing this camera. At least for backing into spots. Maybe for driving.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00QHZV7IQ/

 

[ohmman]

This discussion of the WD hitches and unintended extreme wear to the Tesla setup (hitch receiver) really has me concerned. I have cancelled my equal-I-zer WD hitch, at least for now. I have a little experience towing, and even a couple of experiences towing with my X 100D, and I feel like I am going to plan to be at 55MPH nearly all the time on freeway-almost as an upper limit due to range constraints. I think at that speed, sway should be less of an "extreme" issue, and I can rapidly decelerate if I perceive a problem. I did not really hear a lot of discussion of the built-in "sway management" effectiveness (although I know it is electronically sensed and a brake program).

But the wearing of the receiver, and that one still unanswered question on the "type" of frame construction that P90 wrote...I think is still unanswered in my mind. So I will take delivery of my Flying Cloud 20'FB and do the first 1000 miles with the stock hitch only (and of course wireless brake controller).

Another contributing factor for me is the heavy tongue weight of my particular trailer (and adding the WD hitch adds weight all the way forward). The tongue weight is a bit over the 500lbs to begin with (empty that is) but the fresh and gray tanks are all the way aft, and I intend to fill fresh before towing, as well as put any luggage back there. If I can figure out how to do it with the Airstream manual, I will try to get an exact tongue weight, and I know the total with full fresh will be about 4500lbs. My whole goal is to be within all manufacturer's specs and see if I can get this trip done on the existing supercharger network from Portland to LA. Hopefully I will not have a sway induced chocolate mess.

Did anyone install or have installed a wireless backup camera on an airstream? I am not sure if I should just bite the "dealership" bullet and ask them to install one. I do most stuff DIY, but am cringing a little at cutting aluminum the day I buy it.

I sure wish someone knew a way to splice in a wireless signal to the Tesla camera system, so when you had a trailer you could view THAT image-it would be so much cleaner than another added screen and need for another 12V connection in the cockpit.

A lot to dissect here, but let me add these notes of caution:

You shouldn't exceed the weight rating or the offsets on the Bosal hitch. Backloading the camper is a bad idea as well, as 10-15% of the total loaded weight should be at the front. A rear-weighted trailer is much more likely to experience sway, so most people err on the side of overloading the front. I would strongly recommend upgrading the hitch, even without weight distribution. Definitely purchase a tongue scale. They're relatively inexpensive and easy to use. Or, you can use the leverage and bathroom scale version, though I find it much more convenient to have a dedicated compact tongue scale with me.

I was recently at Bay Area Airstream (they allowed me to drop off my camper during the wildfires) and when I told them about weight distribution and the offsets on the Bosal, they had a very long pause, thinking through the other customers they'd fitted with Equal-i-zers. But weight bearing wouldn't work to level the trailer, either, due to the 3/4" offset limitation. Head scratching ensued and I think they agreed they'd have to recommend the Draw-Tite to future customers.

Regarding the camera, I was able to purchase camera wiring harnesses and a backup camera from Tesla and run them through the chassis of my 22' Sport. I mounted it on the back and used it for our trip, as seen here. When it worked, it was fabulous, but we found that keeping the signal intact was difficult. It worked very well early in the day (when things were cool) but as the day warmed up, we'd lose the signal and would be stuck without it. Until I come up with a better solution, I wouldn't recommend following my lead on it.

 

[WSKCONDOR]

Ohmman, thanks again for the information.
1) I should clarify a bit, I won’t really be “rear weighting” the trailer. In the end I should have 500lb tongue weight and this will be a little more than 10% of the total loaded weight of the trailer (I will not be up to GVWR). Simply having the fresh water thank full should accomplish most of this, but I need to do a scale or something to get a precise number.

2) I am looking into that Draw-Tite brand now. I may go right to it or I may take this inaugural trip and see what the handling characteristics are first.

3) on one of your posts you talked about the swinging trailer jack foot (the quick method to jacking) - can you relay where you purchased that option? And is it an easy self-install? I know I will be unhitching to charge. I just feel “wrong” taking up more than one slot almost at any time, so...it’s the workload I bought in to. Doing this rapidly will help (and in Oregon at Thanksgiving it will inevitably be cold and rainy).

4) I am more intrigued by your rear camera hack. Why didn’t the high def “X” replacement camera work? And where is the harness located to unplug built-in and plug in the trailer-run hack? I think I found where you said you were going to post pics but I can’t find the pics. I will put as much brainpower as I have towards your issue. I can’t figure how temperature should affect camera working or not. Some components might be right on the edge and maybe with additional heat they don’t compensate for additional resistance of such a long run? SO I was thinking a) go with larger wires (lower resistance) or b) do a very complicated camera-to-wireless at the back of the trailer, then receiver to signal output in the bumper of the X (or wherever that harness point is). Option “b” of course would be much more complicated....BUT your solution is SO COOL, that I think it must be taken to fruition.

V/R,
Bill

 

[mengwong]

Another question, if I may – I'm looking at a boondocking scenario where we go off-grid for a day or three.

Power requirements: two Macbook Airs, one external 32" display, so maybe 200 watts? Plus whatever the Airstream itself needs for lights and pump, fridge, etc. For the computers, a 300W inverter plugged into a 12V outlet should work, right? Will I need to tweak the circuit breaker / fuse box?

In an ideal world the 7 pin connector from the Tesla would keep the 12V line hot, so all those loads would all ultimately be served by the HV battery.

Is that realistic? Can the Tesla's 7 pin connector supply that much power? Or should I expect to rely less on the Tesla and more on a solar + AGM solution? What do Tesla Airstreamers do for boondocking 110v?

I'm planning to pick up from Bay Area Airstream on Nov 7 and I'm down to just a handful of decisions left – solar? WD hitch? Remote brake? Your advice and experience reports have been invaluable, @JimVandegriff, @ohmman, @jamtek, and others. Thank you.

 

[ohmman]

Is that realistic? Can the Tesla's 7 pin connector supply that much power? Or should I expect to rely less on the Tesla and more on a solar + AGM solution? What do Tesla Airstreamers do for boondocking 110v?

It's not realistic. The 7-pin is quite inadequate for even the most basic charging. It's a long run, thin wiring, and is just not set up for that kind of draw. It won't even keep the stock battery charged, and that battery is a joke.

Are you getting a 22' Sport? If so, they don't have inverted outlets and boondocking will supply you with 12V and nothing more. That is, unless you have an inverter installed. If so, you'll need to do a major battery upgrade and you should expect limited utilization of your 110v outlets.

Solar will help. AGM or even LiFePo4 batteries can help if you really want to explore. I've also looked into tapping into the 12v bus on the Model X and running thick cables back to the camper to supply pretty much everything. That way you'd only be putting wear on the DC-DC converter in the Tesla. But I've not become fully comfortable with risking my tow vehicle while in the middle of nowhere.

I bought a "solar suitcase" that is a portable way to keep the batteries charged for minor things. I use it when parked at home, and have used it a couple of times on the road, but not much. Our trips have mostly had hookups for the car, so we also had them for the camper.

Good luck..

 

[idoco]

Is that realistic? Can the Tesla's 7 pin connector supply that much power?

Take a look at the electrical schematics for your trailer. Specifically the fuse for the trailer to tow vehicle connection. For the trailer we are getting that fuse is 20A. So @~14V nominal and without derating for continuous draw is ~275Wh max.

In reality the Model X is probably not capable of 20A as factory wired. Someone in the FB Model X towing group posted a picture of the Model X tow connector fuse which was a 15 amp. "F105 is the micro2 fuse for the hitch connector, at least on the european models." So assuming the same on US models, @~14V nominal and without derating for continuous draw, that's ~200Wh.

 

[mengwong]

Did anyone install or have installed a wireless backup camera on an airstream? I am not sure if I should just bite the "dealership" bullet and ask them to install one. I do most stuff DIY, but am cringing a little at cutting aluminum the day I buy it.

Bay Area Airstream installed a wireless backup camera. The weird thing is that the camera monitor doesn't flip the horizontal for the expected mirror-image reversed view. So it's okay for gauging front-to-back distance, it's good for seeing and hearing your assistant, and it's good for knowing roughly what traffic is behind you, but it's not good for left-to-right operations because the cognitive load is just too taxing.

Anyone who gets a wireless camera installed in the future should test this issue at time of delivery.

 

[mengwong]

But weight bearing wouldn't work to level the trailer, either, due to the 3/4" offset limitation.

I have a 3/4" rise on the ball with no WD and my trailer looks pretty level at 500lbs tongue weight. I would even be comfortable with a 0" rise.

 

[mengwong]

Bay Area Airstream installed a wireless backup camera. The weird thing is that the camera monitor doesn't flip the horizontal for the expected mirror-image reversed view. So it's okay for gauging front-to-back distance, it's good for seeing and hearing your assistant, and it's good for knowing roughly what traffic is behind you, but it's not good for left-to-right operations because the cognitive load is just too taxing.

Anyone who gets a wireless camera installed in the future should test this issue at time of delivery.

Turns out if you hold down the power switch the monitor cycles through the different flip configurations.

 

[bschippers718]

Last Tuesday my wife and I picked up a new 22 ft. long Airstream Bambi Sport trailer at Bay Area Airstream in Fairfield, CA. The GVWR (total weight) of this trailer is 4500 lbs. It is equipped with an equalizer hitch, and we towed it with our X 90D back to our home in Trinidad (far northern coastal) California over three days.
We spent the first night near the Airstream dealership (to check for any initial problems) at the Vineyard RV park in Vacaville, CA. Weather was very hot in the Bay Area (106-109 F) where we were driving. The trailer towed very well. Initially, the trailer brake lights did not work with the Tesla, but the technicians knew that a special adapter was needed to the 7 cord plug which would enable the Tesla to read the LED lighting resistance as being present, and activate the lighting. This was done at the Airstream dealer. They had previously installed a Tekonsha prodigy 2 brake controller in the car while we were doing our walkthrough of the trailer.
We had a problem with the water heater the first night. We brought the trailer back to the dealer's techs the next day, and they immediately found the problem (loose plug in the heater) and fixed it. We considered having a wireless back-up camera installed on the rear of the trailer with a screen on our Tesla's dash, but the service tech was not confident in wiring into the Tesla.
The following photos give a hint of the adventures. You can see some of the Tesla superchargers we visited (Napa, Ukiah, Eureka - not yet ready). We had to take up two spaces in Napa, three spaces in Ukiah, and probably would use two spaces in Eureka.
There are several screens showing energy usage. My major takeaway thus far is that speed kills. The slower we drive (we tried 45 mph, 50 mph, 55 mph) and our energy usage increased immensely with higher speed. This seems to bear out the numbers we have seen from the folks crossing Canada with their trailer (teslaxcanada.com)
We will be leaving soon for a 3 month trip around the western USA, and we will keep up our reporting. One thing we have also noted is that we are EV evangelists on a daily basis. We have talked to numbers of people at each RV park, Tesla supercharger, and casual stops. We are enjoying the interactions. More to come.
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Can you start using TezLab app. It’ll keep track of all the data for you. I’m gonna get an airstream too and go around the country so I’m curious and would love to follow you on the app.

Thanks,!!

 

[mengwong]

Another trip report: it is possible to get from Manteca, CA to Groveland, CA towing the Sport 22. Tow vehicle was a P90D loaner with battery somewhat degraded to something more like a 75D capacity.

Departure: 100%
Arrival: 22%.
Drive date: June 19 2018.
Destination: Yosemite Pines RV Park just a few miles east of Groveland.
Manteca is pull through.
Groveland requires unhitching.

 

[idoco]

Departure: 100%
Arrival: 22%.

Based on the trip planner it looks as if you started with 75% and not 100%.

So if a 90D is 81.2kWh than you used 81.2 *.53 = 43kWh to go 53.2 miles. Consumption of 808 Wh/mile. That seems high. Was this all uphill?

 

[mengwong]

Based on the trip planner it looks as if you started with 75% and not 100%.

So if a 90D is 81.2kWh than you used 81.2 *.53 = 43kWh to go 53.2 miles. Consumption of 808 Wh/mile. That seems high. Was this all uphill?

We did leave Manteca with 100%, which on this vehicle meant about 238 miles in the tank. The trip reset for some reason a few miles east when we were at 75%. Probably we were fiddling with the nav.

Consumption was indeed in the 700 to 800s. I believe there is about 5000 feet of elevation gain on that route. And a fair amount of stop and go due to traffic lights along Highway 140. Unfortunately I didn’t get a photo of the trips screen for exact numbers.

Before Manteca we charged at Dublin, awkwardly: