Installing a NEMA 14-50 in a condo garage

[FlasherZ]

I would like to install thicker wire that can easily handle 80A continuous load from the start so that I can add at a later date the twin chargers and HPWC and not have to install all new wiring at that point and instead just change out the 50A breaker to a 100A breaker and remove the 14-50 at the terminating end and wire in the HPWC. Of course it might be slightly more complicated than that as the 14-50 can't take a thicker wire than #4, so I would need some kind of junction box near the 14-50 to convert from the thicker wire to the #4 or #6 wire needed on the 14-50.

That's what Tesla tells you to do if the HPWC isn't delivered in time, although they use a 6-50 instead of a 14-50 (the HPWC doesn't require a neutral conductor, the 14-50 does -- you'll abandon it if you do). See my post above to akula on the temporary install options that does effectively what you're saying -- but yours will just be slightly more permanent.

Can I get the 6-50 adaptor from Tesla even though I have NOT ordered the twin chargers and HPWC with the car?
I guess I can always try and ask. I was hoping to save the upfront $2700 for HPWC and twin chargers and maybe upgrade the car a year or two down the line...

Yes. Reports are they charge $45 for additional adaptors. The 6-50 is available.

 

[Alpha]

Great to know. Thanks for the followup. Just talked to Tesla and they said I can request either a 14-50 or 6-50 adapter with my car at delivery time (at no additional cost as long as I'm getting one or the other adapter), or order an extra one from the service center for around $50. Seems like the 6-50 would be the way to go, cause the wiring would be less expensive with 3 conductors and so less copper (although it is thicker wire so it's probably more expensive anyway)... although having the 14-50 would probably be a necessity on a road trip as I guess there are more 14-50 outlets in the wild at RV parks and such...

Can you think of any possible reason I would not want the 6-50 outlet installed in my garage as a basic medium to long term charging solution? With the thought being that I might upgrade to HPWC down the line if I wanted to. I would think the advantages of going with the 6-50 are two-fold: 1) thicker cable = less voltage drop, 2) one less conductor = less cost.

The length of run I'm looking at about a 65' - 70' from the basement panel up to the garage...

Maybe one reason to go with 14-50 would be if I let other Model S owners charge in my garage... but even then I'd have the 6-50 adapter that they could use...

 

[djp]

I have both the 14-50 and 6-50 adapters for my Roadster, and I installed the 14-50 in my garage.

My 14-50 adapter gets the most use since it's standard at RV parks. I've used the 6-50 when traveling north and staying at friends' summer houses as a few of them have welder outlets in their garages.

Since your outlet is temporary I'd wire it for the 6-50, then order the 14-50 to have both.

 

[Alpha]

Just talked to Tesla again. They said if I decide to "add on" twin charger instead of ordering it from factory it will cost $3600 (versus $1500 for in factory install.)

Wow that's a big difference-- didn't think it would cost that much extra-- he did explain that it's a pretty involved process and that's why it costs so much-- but much easier to do at factory. Now I'm thinking I better cough of the extra $1500 now if I'm seriously thinking about getting that at some point (car still hasn't gone to factory and it's not too late, but I'm running out of time fast...)

- - - Updated - - -

Now I'm afraid to ask if the HPWC will cost more too if ordered later. That one definately doesn't require any in-car install, so I would be shocked if it costs more... but you never know...

 

[FlasherZ]

Great to know. Thanks for the followup. Just talked to Tesla and they said I can request either a 14-50 or 6-50 adapter with my car at delivery time (at no additional cost as long as I'm getting one or the other adapter), or order an extra one from the service center for around $50. Seems like the 6-50 would be the way to go, cause the wiring would be less expensive with 3 conductors and so less copper (although it is thicker wire so it's probably more expensive anyway)... although having the 14-50 would probably be a necessity on a road trip as I guess there are more 14-50 outlets in the wild at RV parks and such...

That's the main reason.

I have a 14-50 in my garage, and a 6-50 in my machine shop. I use the 14-50 to charge Model S but it's also been used to plug in my in-laws' motorhome occasionally. I use the 6-50 for my welder.

A 14-50R can easily be converted to a 6-50R with an adapter cable if you have a need, but not the other way around (because the 6-50 has no neutral).

So, if the plug is purely for the Tesla and you see no need for an RV plug in the future, it's an either-or.
If you think you might have need to plug in an RV in, go with the 14-50, the extra copper is about $1/ft.

 

[Alpha]

What kind of wire do I need for a 65' - 70' run that is future proofed for 80A continuous- 3AWG?

That's the main reason.

I have a 14-50 in my garage, and a 6-50 in my machine shop. I use the 14-50 to charge Model S but it's also been used to plug in my in-laws' motorhome occasionally. I use the 6-50 for my welder.

A 14-50R can easily be converted to a 6-50R with an adapter cable if you have a need, but not the other way around (because the 6-50 has no neutral).

So, if the plug is purely for the Tesla and you see no need for an RV plug in the future, it's an either-or.
If you think you might have need to plug in an RV in, go with the 14-50, the extra copper is about $1/ft.

 

[markb1]

Now I'm afraid to ask if the HPWC will cost more too if ordered later. That one definately doesn't require any in-car install, so I would be shocked if it costs more... but you never know...

I've heard it costs the same, whether you get it with the car or later, as it should.

 

[Alpha]

To answer my own question:

"For most branch circuits of 100A, use 3 AWG (26.7 mm2), 167°F (75°C) copper wire. Ground wiring can be a maximum of 4 AWG."

(from the HPWC install guide that you gave a link to earlier....)

 

[akula]

I have the NEMA 6-50 installed in the garage. The pics below show the conduit running into the wall right next to my spot. Is this what the temp install should look like? Is there a some sort of box that should be somewhere next to the outlet? I should be installing the HPWC once I get it so this is meant as temp install.

 

[FlasherZ]

I have the NEMA 6-50 installed in the garage. The pics below show the conduit running into the wall right next to my spot. Is this what the temp install should look like? Is there a some sort of box that should be somewhere next to the outlet? I should be installing the HPWC once I get it so this is meant as temp install.

That's not to the temp install instructions - Tesla called for a junction box for the large wire (#2 or #3) interconnections to the smaller wire (#6) required for the 50A receptacle, then a surface-mount receptacle below the j-box. The temp instructions called for 12" of #2 or #3 to be left in the j-box for connection in the HPWC. If he did leave 12" inside that box, it's likely going to violate fill rules. He may have found a 50A receptacle that could handle #2/#3 (most 50A receptacles only handle #4 wire as largest) and directly connected it instead of splicing to smaller wire. The conduit appears to be the right size (from the photos, it looks like it's 1" or 1 1/4") for the HPWC.

Taking the cover off that box and getting a picture of it will give me a better idea of what he did. Or you can call and ask him.

 

[Lyon]

Obviously you won't get the max charge rate out of it, but my understanding is that the HPWC is able to handle 40amp. I point this out because not all condos are going to have the ability to run a 100 amp (80amp continuous) circuit but the HPWC does have the added benefit of being more difficult to unplug and walk away with than the UMC.