Installing a temporary 14-50 charging outlet - Advice needed

[Whoze]

So, I have a 2023 standard range 3. and my beliefs and questions are:
1) My understanding is that the max charge rate is limited to 32 amps by the car whether using the mobile or wall charger. That being the case, it would be pointless installing a 60 amp breaker in the main panel. The main panel is a SC816F200, so a 40 amp double pole breaker would work just fine, using the 80% rule.
2) Given that I will be using my mobile charger until I get around to installing the wall charger, any trash Nema 14-50 outlet will do (expecting wall charger in the next 6-8 months).
3) What material should the conduit be, plastic or metal? The run will be about 35 feet from the main breaker. It will be outside. Plastic is offers insulation from the heat of the sun, metal could conduct heat away to keep electrical loss low, but does not paint well.
4) Should I upgrade wire from 6 to 4? Is power loss that significant over 35 feet?

Appreciate any advice or experience the community has to offer.

 

[ucmndd]

You should really just get a wall connector and do it right from the beginning.

You do not need 4awg wire and many 14-50 receptacles aren’t equipped to terminate 4awg wire.

A 14-50 receptacle is meant to be 50 amps and you should install a 50 amp breaker if you’re set on going this way.

You need a GFCI breaker for an EV charging receptacle by code.

I would use EMT (metal) conduit.

 

[ATPMSD]

Agree you should get the wall connector right away if you think you will want it in the future. If you do not already own the mobile connector the materials needed for the wall connector are less than those for a 14-50 outlet.

If you put this outlet outside you need a box for the mobile connector as it is not rated for outdoor use, the wall connector is.

If you go with a 14-50 outlet do NOT go with a cheap one! You need the one from Bryant or Hubble - $80

If you install the 14-50 outlet you will need a GFCI breaker ($150), the wall connector uses a standard $15 breaker.

If you run #6 THNN wire in a conduit, it is rated for 75 amps. #6 Romex does not require a conduit but is rated at only 55-amps and is NOT suitable for a 60-amo circuit.

 

[Cosmacelf]

Everyone is ignoring that you only want to charge at 32A, which is perfectly fine and appropriate. I do echo other’s suggestion to forgo the 14-50 outlet and instead install a $425 Wall Connector.

You’d have to get a weather proof 14-50, and a 40A GFCI circuit breaker and a weatherproof box for the Mobile Charger. All not worth it in my opinion. Just get the weather rated Wall connector.

Either PVC or EMT conduit will work fine, similar price. Buy outdoor/water rated fittings if you go the EMT route, for instance the EMT screw connectors are not rated for outdoor use. 10 gauge THHN is all you need for a 40A breaker, but 8 gauge would allow you to upgrade to 40A charging in the future with a breaker swap out, and it would result in slightly less power loss.

More info: CarCharging.us

 

[ucmndd]

Everyone is ignoring that you only want to charge at 32A, which is perfectly fine and appropriate.

Not ignoring, just trying to encourage someone to not do something penny wise and pound foolish.

If the plan is to eventually install a wall connector anyway, it's stupid to do what OP is suggesting. Installing a rinkydink not code compliant temporary 14-50 is an option, but why bother?

Even if the current car can only charge at 32 amps, it's super short-sighted to not install conductors capable of a full 60 amp circuit and commissioning the wall connector that way. Putting in a 40 amp breaker for a 50 amp 14-50 plug in a weather proof enclosure, running an extra conductor for the neutral, blah blah blah is a waste of time and money.

 

[3sr+buyer]

2) Given that I will be using my mobile charger until I get around to installing the wall charger, any trash Nema 14-50 outlet will do (expecting wall charger in the next 6-8 months).

Best would be to choose any outlet with full size brass contacts to the plug blades. In practice, this means a non-Leviton outlet, since the common Leviton 279-S00 has half-size steel contacts that have higher resistance that can lead to heat problems at higher amperages (over about 26A).

Most outlets (excluding the aforementioned Leviton 279-S00) do have full size brass contacts to the plug blades. This includes some relatively low cost outlets. The more expensive Hubbell and Bryant 14-50 outlets that get pushed a lot on these forums do have a wire clamping mechanism that is easier to install correctly than the screw-down mechanism that most outlets have, but careful installation of screw-down clamped wires should be ok.

 

[Whoze]

So, I have a 2023 standard range 3. and my beliefs and questions are:
1) My understanding is that the max charge rate is limited to 32 amps by the car whether using the mobile or wall charger. That being the case, it would be pointless installing a 60 amp breaker in the main panel. The main panel is a SC816F200, so a 40 amp double pole breaker would work just fine, using the 80% rule.
2) Given that I will be using my mobile charger until I get around to installing the wall charger, any trash Nema 14-50 outlet will do (expecting wall charger in the next 6-8 months).
3) What material should the conduit be, plastic or metal? The run will be about 35 feet from the main breaker. It will be outside. Plastic is offers insulation from the heat of the sun, metal could conduct heat away to keep electrical loss low, but does not paint well.
4) Should I upgrade wire from 6 to 4? Is power loss that significant over 35 feet?

Appreciate any advice or experience the community has to offer.

Don't know how to edit my own post, so I am replying to myself with additional information that may clear things up a bit (maybe!)
I have an external meter main panel and an internal garage subpanel. The garage is in the middle of a major rebuild and will eventually house the EV wall charger. But there is no way to get the M3 close enough to the eventual place of the wall charger. Installing a reachable wall charger in the garage would leave the garage exposed (not a crime-free neighborhood) and the wall charger will have to be relocated later anyways. The mobile charger can be sufficiently waterproofed (tested with a water hose) and keeping an eye on the weather forecast can probably mitigate any weather problems. The external outlet would be repurposed for external tools etc. But it's looking like mounting an external wall charger (crime-proofing it) and relocating it later is the best option. Thanks for everyone's input.

 

[ATPMSD]

The more expensive Hubbell and Bryant 14-50 outlets that get pushed a lot on these forums

Just FYI, Telsa recommends these outlets.

NEMA 14-50 Tesla Response | Seahurst Electric

Q: How does Tesla respond to NEMA 14-50 questions? A: While an existing NEMA 14-50 outlet will work to charge the car, you would need to purchase the $35 adapter from Tesla to make it work, they are not provided with the vehicle. Tesla does not recommend installing a new NEMA 14-50 outlet to...

www.seahurst.com

 

[LoL-Gas]

Of course the company who sells the wall connector box would recommend the wall connector....

OP, you should hire an electrician to do this work. Don't skimp out on materials to save a few dollars now to 'upgrade' in the future.

 

[father_of_6]

What's the reason for "6-8 months"? Sure seems silly to me to install a subpar, probably dangerous, and almost just expensive charging solution just to replace it in 6 months.

Do yourself a favor - get the HPWC and skip the rest. The reason for going 60 amps is for future proofing. Your next car might be able to charge at 48amps... no great reason to do less just to save $20.

 

[ATPMSD]

Of course the company who sells the wall connector box would recommend the wall connector..

You missed the point. This was to address the comment referenced in the post.

 

[jjrandorin]

What's the reason for "6-8 months"?

I think the OP answered this in a subsequent post:

The garage is in the middle of a major rebuild and will eventually house the EV wall charger. But there is no way to get the M3 close enough to the eventual place of the wall charger.

Nevertheless, put me in the camp that thinks the OP should just install the wall connector, since the run is outside, and they stated they will have a wall connector anyway. Its true that the current vehicle will only charge at 32amps. If it were me, I would get a wall connector, probably install the wire for a 40 amp circuit, and a I wouldnt be choosing conduit based on paintability or not for a 6 month install time frame.

 

[father_of_6]

I think the OP answered this in a subsequent post:

Derp... I didn't see that originally.

@Whoze - my HPWC is inside of a garage about 2 feet from the garage door, but i park outside of the garage. I drilled a hole in the edge of a landscape timber, ran the charging cable through it, then closed the garage door on the landscape timber.

So my HPWC is inside the garage, but my charging happens outside with the garage door closed. Perhaps your temporary solution could be something like that. I have a *lot* of spare cable, maybe 10 or more feet.

 

[Whoze]

What's the reason for "6-8 months"? Sure seems silly to me to install a subpar, probably dangerous, and almost just expensive charging solution just to replace it in 6 months.

Do yourself a favor - get the HPWC and skip the rest. The reason for going 60 amps is for future proofing. Your next car might be able to charge at 48amps... no great reason to do less just to save $20.

Garage is in pieces with tools and construction materials. Not worth risking denting my new shiny paint.

 

[pikeman]

You have received some sensible advice. My Dad was an electrician and made some good money on replacing shoddy electrical work that was intended to save money. Electrical equipment isn’t something to cheap-out on! I was ready to do a 14-50 install myself but came to my senses and realized it just wasn’t possible to do any of the work and expect a licensed electrician to finish the work I was uncomfortable with. So I used a licensed guy start to finish with the Tesla wall charger. He did the work in about an hour, which included some rag-chewing with me. The inspector looked at the install, recognized the electrician and it was done.
Good luck with your project, sorry it’s such a complicated job!

 

[Whoze]

You have received some sensible advice. My Dad was an electrician and made some good money on replacing shoddy electrical work that was intended to save money. Electrical equipment isn’t something to cheap-out on! I was ready to do a 14-50 install myself but came to my senses and realized it just wasn’t possible to do any of the work and expect a licensed electrician to finish the work I was uncomfortable with. So I used a licensed guy start to finish with the Tesla wall charger. He did the work in about an hour, which included some rag-chewing with me. The inspector looked at the install, recognized the electrician and it was done.
Good luck with your project, sorry it’s such a complicated job!

Thanks. The complication is that the last contractor left my garage looking like a war-zone and disappeared during the whole quasi lockdown never to be seen again. I just have bad experience with an electrician - the electrical part was fine, but he wrecked my garage ceiling even more, put more damage installing the brand new meter main panel than ten years' worth of wear and tear. The box was all twisted and I went back in, removed and reinstalled it correctly so that the panel opens without snagging. Furthermore, the panel cannot take a 60 amp GFCI breaker. The inspector said the job was sound if a little messy and made useful diy suggestions. I've rewired an old house before but was just too busy that time around. While I don't have all the connections and code knowledge, I am a very good youtube monkey-wrencher. And will likely get an electrician to sign off on my work. Thus, my M3 has to stay out in the cold for now!

 

[father_of_6]

The HPWC avoids the need for an expensive GFCI breaker. If the concern is that upcoming construction work is going to damage the HPWC, I personally would install it anyways, then built a chips cage of 2x4s on the wall surrounding it, then wrapping that in a contractors bag and ducts tape (to avoid dust getting in). Even running the charging cable through a cheap 10ft PVC if needed.

You'll actually spend nearly the same amount of money setting up "temporary" (and less safe) charging. Just use the HPWC and if it takes damage, deal with that problem at that time... if it even happens.

 

[father_of_6]

Or mount the HPWC near the garage door and run the cable outside, then relocate the charger after construction is finished. That'll still likely be cheaper than setting up other temporary charging.

 

[Whoze]

I found out our PGE utilities company offers a nice $500 rebate for installing a hardwired Chargepoint Flex charge connector. That makes it a $250 solution. No eating out for a month is a very reasonable price to pay!
Again, thanks for everyone's input!