Installing Wall Connector is better than NEMA 14-50

[C-Bus Y]

While it works temporarily that is not a good solution especially using the Y cable. In your situation I would put a sub panel in the garage.

Not saying this about you C Bus but generally speaking I can’t understand why some folks choose to spend over 60k on an EV but try to cut costs with their home charging. Charging should be the number one consideration when purchasing an EV. A potential EV owner needs to figure that piece out before purchasing the EV. I can’t stress enough how important safety is with EV charging. This is NOT a place to try to cut costs or save money.

I hear you, but this works perfectly fine. If we had 2 Teslas then a single wall charger would make more sense. I even turn down the charging rate on my mobile connector to 22 amps to play it safe and start my charging after midnight just incase my wife’s vehicle charges at the same time. Her Volvo maxes out at 12 amps and only takes a few hours. Mobile connector came with my car, not sure why I would buy something else.

No need to run another circuit, this works well. To each their own, just be safe with electricity and have a properly fused circuit (GFCI if you use the mobile connector).

On a side note, the fact that all new Teslas don’t come with at mobile connector is cheap as hell. Even if you just store it in your vehicle for trips. Pretty much everything else electric you buy comes with a charging cable. End rant.

 

[804son]

I got both my Teslas back when the mobile charger came with the vehicle (No Extra Charge). I charge both cars at the same time with seperate Nema 14-50 outlets and the mobile chargers. Both vehicles charge overnight with more than enough time to be at whatever percentage I need by morning. My house hasn't burned down and I haven't died in the process. There are a tremendous more Nema 14-50 plugs in service than Wall Chargers, somehow we all seem to be safe and are able to charge our vehicles quickly and efficiently.
If I ordered today maybe I would spend the extra $200 for a wall charger, maybe I wouldn't. But, my set-up is perfectly safe and has never faltered in any way.

 

[legendsk]

My carport already had a 14-50 receptacle when I ordered a MYLR in Jan 2022. I ordered a wall connector from Tesla and a power cable with a molded 14-50 P for it. The wall connector provides several extra services that I think are worthwhile. I have had the car for 4 months now and other than long road trips, do all charging at home. Very pleased with the operation and performance of the wall connector. If I ever get rid of the Tesla, I will just unplug the wall connector and include it in the sale.

 

[240vPlug]

I plan to install a second gen 3 wall connector hard wired and have them share the 60 amp circuit. In preparation for the wife’s Rivian.

Some pretty cool looking setups there I must say!

 

[mswlogo]

Use case for 14-50 outlet:

You have two EV’s and one is not a Tesla. It would cost $3K to run a second circuit 100+ feet through the home and into the garage. Just because you can buy it and plug it in doesn’t make it safe or legal.

We use a “Y” splitter and have two chargers plugged into our 14-50 outlet and take turns charging. If I could wire a 14-50 cable into the back of the wall charger I would, but that is technically not allowed.

It has a purpose.

It’s technically not allowed to run a Y splitter either. If both cars accidentally charged I bet you’d fry the Y splitter/ outlet. Accident waiting to happen. Just because you buy it and plug it in doesn’t make it safe or legal.

You could do an A/B switch between Wall Connector and outlet. Technically not legal but much safer. EV circuits are supposed to be dedicated. I have an A/B switch between a heater 240V 30A (I rarely use) and charging circuit. And it’s on GFCI because the heater is plugged in.

 

[Yolanda45$]

When I say cost of installation I am not including the charger. Remember though the mobile charger is $200 as it is no longer included with the car.

The total cost is small enough that given the other factors I mentioned installing a hard wired wall connector is a no brainer.

There will be those that swear installing a 14-50 and using the cheaper mobile connector is fine and I think regardless of what anyone else says those folks will not be convinced otherwise. Even when charging is frequently interrupted by a tripping GFCI breaker.

When your making a $60,000 investment in an EV spend the extra couple hundred on a proper home charging setup installed properly and rest assured there will be no issues moving forward.

I think this is the right solution. But I have to spend a bunch of money to bring wiring all the way from the front of the building to the back in my condo building. That adds about 1K.

 

[mswlogo]

I think this is the right solution. But I have to spend a bunch of money to bring wiring all the way from the front of the building to the back in my condo building. That adds about 1K.

You have to spend that regardless of mobile connector or wall connector.

 

[BrumsterMan]

Depending on when you placed your order for the Tesla Model Y you will receive the Mobile Connector kit with the 5-15 (standard 120V) plug adapter. If you need the 14-50 plug adapter it is available from Tesla for $45. (After the cut off date buyers won't receive the Mobile Connector with the Model Y, will have to purchase the Mobile Connector kit for $200 (starting in the August 2022 time frame the Mobile Connector kit will come with the 5-15 and 14-50 plug adapters.

The Wall Connector is in most cases the better option versus the Mobile Connector w/14-50:

- Wall Connector enables charging at 40 amps instead of 32 amps (for the Mobile Connector). This is for a circuit rated for 50 amps. The 14-50 receptacle is rated for a maximum of 50 amps. For a circuit rated for 60 amps the Wall Connector (hard wired) would enable charging at 48 amps.
- Wall Connector has a 24 foot charging cord versus just 18 foot for the Mobile Connector
- Wall Connector is fully weather rated for outdoor use

Regarding the GFCI, both the Mobile Connector and the Wall Connector have a built in GFCI that protects the user when plugging the charging connector into the Tesla vehicle's charging port. The need for a GFCI circuit breaker came with the 2017 revision of the national electrical code (NEC.) All EV charging circuits that terminate with a receptacle are required to have GFCI protection for the receptacle. This GFCI protects the user when plugging and unplugging the power plug from the wall receptacle. For a 14-50 receptacle the only available GFCI is to install a GFCI circuit breaker (this can cost up to $150.) When you install the Wall Connector it is hard wired (there is no plug or receptacle) so there is no need for a separate GCFI.

So if I have an existing NEMA 14-50 plug with a GFCI breaker will the charger work properly or do I need to replace with a non GFCI breaker?

 

[davewill]

So if I have an existing NEMA 14-50 plug with a GFCI breaker will the charger work properly or do I need to replace with a non GFCI breaker?

Should work fine. There have been cases where a particular GFCI breaker didn't want to work with the car/mobile connector, but it's rare. If that were to happen, you'd probably have to replace it with another GCFI as putting a non-GFCI in its place would violate code.

 

[BrumsterMan]

Should work fine. There have been cases where a particular GFCI breaker didn't want to work with the car/mobile connector, but it's rare. If that were to happen, you'd probably have to replace it with another GCFI as putting a non-GFCI in its place would violate code.

Awesome and thanks!

 

[jcanoe]

So if I have an existing NEMA 14-50 plug with a GFCI breaker will the charger work properly or do I need to replace with a non GFCI breaker?

Should work fine, in fact the GFCI protection for EV charging (either circuit breaker or receptacle) is now required by code in many jurisdictions. (Note: The GFCI circuit breaker protects the user when plugging or unplugging the charging station power cord from the wall receptacle. (Turning off the power at the circuit breaker before plugging or unplugging the charging station power cord from the wall receptacle similarly protects the user when plugging or unplugging the equipment.)

The Tesla Mobile Connector and Tesla Wall Connector units have separate built-in GFCI protection for the user when plugging or unplugging the charging connector from the vehicle.

If you ever install the Tesla Gen3 Wall Connector, it is designed to be hard wired (no plug or receptacle) then you would want to replace the GFCI circuit breaker with a standard circuit breaker. The Tesla Gen3 Wall Connector installation manual states not to use a GFCI circuit breaker.

 

[240vPlug]

GFCI can cause nusciance tripping when used with a device that has built-in protection. If that happens and it's a problem. replace with a standard breaker for minimal cost

 

[gt2690b]

GFCI can cause nusciance tripping when used with a device that has built-in protection. If that happens and it's a problem. replace with a standard breaker for minimal cost

Might as well use a penny

 

[AC Traction]

GFCI can cause nusciance tripping when used with a device that has built-in protection. If that happens and it's a problem. replace with a standard breaker for minimal cost

Assuming a hardwired EVSE like the wall connector, that's fine. One shouldn't be using a GFCI breaker with a hardwired wall connector.

If it has a plug, GFCI is required.

 

[240vPlug]

Assuming a hardwired EVSE like the wall connector, that's fine. One shouldn't be using a GFCI breaker with a hardwired wall connector.

If it has a plug, GFCI is required.

Yes it would be a waste to do that. I know JuiceBox/EnelX EVSE had a really bad problem with tripping GFCI breakers when using the 14-50 version. Their solution was to replace customer units with hard wired models and tell the customer to install without GFCI breaker.

Sometimes these GFCI breakers will trip for no reason at all and with no charge load (just the couple watts passive draw from charger). I have seen quite a bit over the years. I like to eliminate as many failure points from a setup as possible and reasonable. Plugs, receptacle, GFCI breakers in my mind are extras that just aren't needed for a permanent home charging setup. They add expense and additional failure points to the system.

 

[STS-134]

Yes it would be a waste to do that. I know JuiceBox/EnelX EVSE had a really bad problem with tripping GFCI breakers when using the 14-50 version. Their solution was to replace customer units with hard wired models and tell the customer to install without GFCI breaker.

Sometimes these GFCI breakers will trip for no reason at all and with no charge load (just the couple watts passive draw from charger). I have seen quite a bit over the years. I like to eliminate as many failure points from a setup as possible and reasonable. Plugs, receptacle, GFCI breakers in my mind are extras that just aren't needed for a permanent home charging setup. They add expense and additional failure points to the system.

The code has gotten ahead of reality. Code technically requires a GFCI breaker however the EVSEs do a safety check and make sure the ground pin isn't floating by sinking current into it. However there is no standard that specifies the maximum current a EVSE is allowed to use for a safety check nor the minimum that should cause a GFCI breaker to trip. Until there is, the best solution is probably just to do a non code compliant install; this is what my electrician did after explaining the situation to me.

 

[gt2690b]

The code has gotten ahead of reality. Code technically requires a GFCI breaker however the EVSEs do a safety check and make sure the ground pin isn't floating by sinking current into it. However there is no standard that specifies the maximum current a EVSE is allowed to use for a safety check nor the minimum that should cause a GFCI breaker to trip. Until there is, the best solution is probably just to do a non code compliant install; this is what my electrician did after explaining the situation to me.

I believe there is a minimum for GFCI somewhere around 5mA is all that's needed through a human heart to kill

Ground Fault Circuit Interrupters (GFCIs): - Safe Electricity

There are three types of GFCIs. The most often used “receptacle-type” GFCI, similar to a common wall outlet, is the type with which most consumers are familiar. Additionally, circuit breaker GFCIs are often used as replacements for standard circuit breakers and provide GFCI protection to all...

safeelectricity.org

I hope your insurance agent doesn't read your post else your next house fire will not be covered

 

[240vPlug]

The code has gotten ahead of reality. Code technically requires a GFCI breaker however the EVSEs do a safety check and make sure the ground pin isn't floating by sinking current into it. However there is no standard that specifies the maximum current a EVSE is allowed to use for a safety check nor the minimum that should cause a GFCI breaker to trip. Until there is, the best solution is probably just to do a non code compliant install; this is what my electrician did after explaining the situation to me.

That's not a good recommendation. That could pose a problem in the future if you need to file a claim with insurance or if you sell the property.

The hard wired setup is code compliant and eliminate the issues with GFCI. That's why I always tell everyone that's the way to go.

 

[gt2690b]

That's not a good recommendation. That could pose a problem in the future if you need to file a claim with insurance or if you sell the property.

The hard wired setup is code compliant and eliminate the issues with GFCI. That's why I always tell everyone that's the way to go.

As discussed earlier in this thread (or maybe a different thread) the code requires GFCI for hard wired as well for outdoor installations

 

[STS-134]

I believe there is a minimum for GFCI somewhere around 5mA is all that's needed through a human heart to kill

Right but there isn't a standard that says EVSEs shall use a maximum of say 2 mA of current to do safety checks and GFCI breakers shall not trip unless more than 2.5 mA of current is flowing, which is why we are seeing issues like this. They need to resolve these issues ASAP.

I hope your insurance agent doesn't read your post else your next house fire will not be covered

GFCI does jack squat to prevent fires. GFCI is all about protecting you. What's really strange is that AFAIK the code requires a GFCI breaker for a receptacle that intended to be used for EV charging, but if you built the receptacle intending to use it for something else and then later decide to use it for EV charging, it's legal. And if it was that dangerous to not use a GFCI breaker, they should require ALL receptacles used for EV charging to have one regardless of when they were installed and not grandfather clause anything. It's not like a 14-50 outlet that was installed in 2013 and is used for EV charging is magically less dangerous than one installed in 2021. I still think that using GFCI is a good idea and I've upgraded multiple outlets in my house with the capability but they need to update the requirements so that you do not get nuisance tripping.