Investor Engineering Discussions

[MP3Mike]

But one question came up for me for the Austin 2170s:
They explicitly stated them to be non-structural.
That means they either have to build two different bodies (on a second line?), or the 4680 cars are using 'structural bodies' and therefore carry some extra weight....

@-=buzz=- No I don't think it means that. Every pack ever made has been structural to the car, but the cells inside were not part of that structure. (So the pack frame, etc. had to have more metal/reinforcement in it.)

I'm pretty sure that the bodies will be identical, the only difference will be the pack.

 

[-=buzz=-]

@-=buzz=- No I don't think it means that. Every pack ever made has been structural to the car, but the cells inside were not part of that structure. (So the pack frame, etc. had to have more metal/reinforcement in it.)

I'm pretty sure that the bodies will be identical, the only difference will be the pack.

No, Munro for example stated, that the car passes crash tests without the pack, so from that perspective the whole pack acts like a bag of Potatoes.
Yes it does add structural strength through its own rigidity. But that's not what 'structural pack' refers to.
It's about substituting significant car frame structure with the packs inherent load carrying capability.

Other manufacturers are already using the pack for structural support, but Tesla didn't until now.
And they intend to do it more efficiently than the competition by using the cells instead of additional steel in the packs to support the loads.

 

[mongo]

Clearest differentiator:
Non-structural pack has midline attachement bolts.
Structural pack is only attached at the edges, it spans the full width unsupported.
The pack is self structural versus the pack is the car's stucture (which it sort of way on OG S & X)

Frame wise, the non-structural chassis has additional cross rails welded in. It's possible the rest of the structure is up-sized due to the non-structural pack, however those features may be driven by impact or crush requirements the pack does not appreciably address. The structural pack will increase torsional rigidity, but that is just further levels of awesomeness.

 

[willow_hiller]

Any thoughts on why Tesla is delaying customer deliveries of the MY AWD? Just spotted this engineering test on Twitter; maybe they're still verifying a few things?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1518326019173847045

 

[-=buzz=-]

Well, it's a new battery pack on a new assembly line.
So of course they're going to pull some mules off of it and put them through their testing parcours....
Doesn't mean there are any issues. Doesn't exclude them either.

 

[mongo]

Any thoughts on why Tesla is delaying customer deliveries of the MY AWD? Just spotted this engineering test on Twitter; maybe they're still verifying a few things?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1518326019173847045

Wild guess: V2X circuitry being tested along with cycling the pack and electronics. Since these look like AC wall connectors.
Tame guess: test units for SW dev/ vampire drain.

 

[willow_hiller]

Wild guess: V2X circuitry being tested along with cycling the pack and electronics. Since these look like AC wall connectors.
Tame guess: test units for SW dev/ vampire drain.

Some people in that thread also pointed out the tint on the glass looked a lot darker than the Fremont Model Ys. So a tame guess from that could be they're testing new glass in the Texas heat.

 

[willow_hiller]

Really cool demonstration of a Model Y's matrix headlights:

https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaLounge/comments/udfq3n

I can't wait to see how these improve safety, since it looks like they'll be able to light around extreme corners or right below other vehicles. And Tesla will be able to enable them OTA for most models made since early 2021!

 

[Ogre]

Don’t care what the headlight bar looks like on the Cybertruck… want those matrix lights

 

[BioSehnsucht]

I'll add those headlights to the things I'm willing to pay Tesla to upgrade on my 2018 Model 3

Things I'm willing to pay reasonable cost for labor and parts (or just parts, if I can install it myself, and they can OTA make it work as expected, i.e. the tail lights):

• Rear amber turn signals, I consider this a safety upgrade (easy to do the physical swap, but needs software changes to use correctly)
• USB-C upgrade for center console (can just order the parts and install myself, but a Tesla supplied wiring adapter would be nice rather than having to find or buy it myself)
• Rear seat USB upgrade (same as above, would be nice to be able to get a wiring adapter from Tesla)
• MCU3 upgrade (I don't even want to game on it, it's just that the Intel Atom is just terribly slow at basic tasks, never mind using video streaming services or web browser)
• Lithium 12V battery (just had my original lead acid one fail but it was covered by service)
• Heated steering wheel
• Powered trunk
• Front projector headlights, I consider this a safety upgrade

Things I feel should be replaced / upgraded at no or low cost (the listed price of cameras for example seem a bit exorbitant but perhaps that's a supply/demand issue rather than actual materials/production cost issue):

• Repeater cameras (to fix the visible turn signal bleed through at night) - this has potential to affect FSD and safety functions at night too, so might be a safety upgrade
• CCS compatibility upgrade to use CCS Type 1 DCFC chargers through adapter

 

[JRP3]

Why not just trade it in on a new one?

 

[ggies07]

• MCU3 upgrade (I don't even want to game on it, it's just that the Intel Atom is just terribly slow at basic tasks, never mind using video streaming services or web browser)
• Lithium 12V battery (just had my original lead acid one fail but it was covered by service)

These are my two most important items to be able to keep the car as long as possible...we are wanting to give it to our daughter when she starts to drive in 4 and half years.

 

[BioSehnsucht]

Why not just trade it in on a new one?

To trade it in on a new one, I'd need to be able to get a new one. Plus there's the fact that prices have gone up, especially factoring in the price I paid for FSD (EAP + FSD upgrade when it was on sale, so I think that makes it 5k or 4k total? I forget what it was), and unless Tesla decides to make that transferable, that's a huge price increase on top of the base cost increase.

These are my two most important items to be able to keep the car as long as possible...we are wanting to give it to our daughter when she starts to drive in 4 and half years.

I also expect to have my car for a long time. I expect to own my 2018 Model 3 for a decade, give or take a few years. Perhaps longer, but I don't plan to replace it (unless due to some kind of accident / etc necessitating replacement). My previous car was a 2008 Mazda 3, and I owned it for about a decade before getting the Model 3, and other than some minor exterior cosmetic issues was still in extremely good condition at the time, and despite over 120k miles on it everything ran great. Granted that I had replaced the suspension once in addition to the normal upkeep of tires, oil, and so on over the years, but it drove as well on the last day I drove it as it did the first day.

I expect nothing less from my Tesla, there's no reason it shouldn't last a decade. Especially since I don't commute 60+ miles a day any more.

 

[JRP3]

I think some of your upgrade wishes wouldn't be possible, or at least not easy enough that Tesla would do them. The Tesla lithium "12V" operates at higher voltage than the lead acid and probably requires a different DC/DC converter and the heated steering wheel probably requires wiring that's not in the vehicle.

 

[BioSehnsucht]

I think some of your upgrade wishes wouldn't be possible, or at least not easy enough that Tesla would do them. The Tesla lithium "12V" operates at higher voltage than the lead acid and probably requires a different DC/DC converter and the heated steering wheel probably requires wiring that's not in the vehicle.

I never demanded my wishlist be made complete, only that I was willing to shell out money for it.

The steering wheel, headlights, and powered trunk are all likely to need wiring that isn't there, or has the wrong connectors, etc. Some of that may be solvable with add-on adapter harnesses, some of it may be "impossible" (requiring unreasonable rework). And of those three, the headlights are the ones I really want, the others are nice-to-haves. The headlights are potentially huge improvements to comfort and safety.

The LV battery voltage almost certainly isn't an issue though, I would be surprised if they can't reprogram the existing DC/DC charging unit to a higher voltage - it should be less than 1 volt difference from the nominal fully charged state of the lithium battery and typical voltage used for charging 12V lead acid batteries (it's higher than 12V, too). More likely would be the need for harness adapters from normal battery terminals to the connector used on the lithium battery, plus possibly a CAN connection someplace (I'm assuming the lithium battery is on the CAN bus, I could be wrong). And of course I could always go find an aftermarket 12V lead-acid replacement lithium battery (these exist), but I'd rather have the OEM solution.

My top 3 picks would be MCU3, headlights, and taillights. Everything else is either less useful/important to me or is doable already by ourselves (like the USB upgrades).

 

[JRP3]

The LV battery voltage almost certainly isn't an issue though, I would be surprised if they can't reprogram the existing DC/DC charging unit to a higher voltage - it should be less than 1 volt difference from the nominal fully charged state of the lithium battery and typical voltage used for charging 12V lead acid batteries (it's higher than 12V, too).

The lithium "12V" is probably over 16V, 4.2 x 4, or there about.

 

[mongo]

The lithium "12V" is probably over 16V, 4.2 x 4, or there about.

Yeah, but LFP is lower voltage, [It's NMC] still high enough to require a new washer pump. Plus ya need a new harness

 

[JRP3]

Yeah, but LFP is lower voltage, still high enough to require a new washer pump. Plus ya need a new harness

I thought the Tesla 12V wasn't LFP? LFP would be 3.6 x 4 = 14.4V

 

[BioSehnsucht]

Per my googling ... Tesla's New 12V Li-Ion Auxiliary Battery Has CATL Cells Inside

The nominal voltage is slightly higher than normally in lead-acid battery (12.8 V). With four cells in series (3.7 V nominal) it should be at 14.8 V for most of the time.

Typical lead acid charging voltage is around 14V. That's why I said I would be surprised if they couldn't adjust the output by that much via software update - they are likely using more or less identical DC/DC units from both before and after the changeover.

From looking at Tesla's terribly low information EPC, it looks like just one model of the power conversion system exists for 3/Y, which I think is where the DC/DC is, but I'm not sure. I am certain the site used to list specific things like what years / models stuff applied to, but I don't see that anywhere now.

 

[mongo]

I thought the Tesla 12V wasn't LFP? LFP would be 3.6 x 4 = 14.4V

Doh, you're right CATL prismatic NMC. Tesla's New 12V Li-Ion Auxiliary Battery Has CATL Cells Inside