You're getting ripped off. Even here in Australia it's 1 EUR/Watt (1.4 AUD/Watt) for PV solar, including installation.
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Is anyone only charging for free at a supercharger?
- Thread starter Right_Said_Fred
- Start date
You're getting ripped off. Even here in Australia it's 1 EUR/Watt (1.4 AUD/Watt) for PV solar, including installation.
With the battery storage they won't need to sell back at low prices, just store the energy until needed.
And Elon owns a large part of SolarCity too. I seriously doubt they'd have bough everything from local installers, more likely they would ship the whole system over in containers and have some of their own guys do the installation. My guess is SolarCity pays much less for the stuff than I do.
BTW, if you have to pay 40ct/kWh for electricity but only get paid 7ct/kWh for what you produce and feed back, that is a seriously ****ed system. Pure rip-off. Still solar could be very economic. Import everything yourself, size the system to compensate for what you use during the day, mount the panels yourself and only have the electrician do the final connection. You should be able to achieve about the same price as me, around €1.10 per Wp.
agreed, free is free... no "*" anywhere, although you really are paying for it in the price of your car.... if you want to supercharge everyday and go out of your way to do it, so be it.... If I had the choice, I would have kept my $2k instead of having supercharger access...
I do wonder if supercharging on a regular basis degrades the battery quicker..
I do wonder if supercharging on a regular basis degrades the battery quicker..
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Heard from where? I know Nissan says it does, but they're using manganese spinel batteries with air cooling, as opposed to Tesla with NCA and liquid cooling. The Leaf would also be charging at 2C, while the 85kWh Model S charges at ~1.4C.
For someone with such a forward-focused username, you sure have a conservative way of thinking.
Please remember that solar prices, or indeed any economics like energy pricing, is primarily a local or regional affair. The prices and laws change dramatically as you go around the world, and something may be a very good idea in one place while being unworkable in others. So "forget solar" is not very good advice.
As for Supercharging, Elon has repeatedly stated -- just last week during the conference call being the most recent, and one which I heard personally -- that Supercharging does not appear to affect the life of the pack. He said frequent Supercharging would have "very slight" effects on the battery's life expectancy, and went on to add that the very worst thing you can do to any battery is to keep it full and/or keep it hot for any length of time.
For someone with such a forward-focused username, you sure have a conservative way of thinking.
Please remember that solar prices, or indeed any economics like energy pricing, is primarily a local or regional affair. The prices and laws change dramatically as you go around the world, and something may be a very good idea in one place while being unworkable in others. So "forget solar" is not very good advice.
As for Supercharging, Elon has repeatedly stated -- just last week during the conference call being the most recent, and one which I heard personally -- that Supercharging does not appear to affect the life of the pack. He said frequent Supercharging would have "very slight" effects on the battery's life expectancy, and went on to add that the very worst thing you can do to any battery is to keep it full and/or keep it hot for any length of time.
Thats why I joined this forum, to get rid off my prejudices. Solar power is off topic here, but I am well aware that solar economics is largely dependent on the location. (CA is the "perfect spot" for TSLA). I've been talking about the situation in Austria and Hungary.
I didnt know that Supercharging doesnt alter the battery life. I (for some reason) seem to believe that it does. Maybe this only affects the aircooled nissan leaf (that I testdrove long ago):wink:. After all TSLA does have a very sophisticated battery management system.
btw, yes I do have a great username....:wink:
"The Leaf would also be charging at 2C, while the 85kWh Model S charges at ~1.4C. "
WOW thanks for the Info, you guys know a lot about the model S
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Kipernicus
Model S Res#P1440
I didn't consider the possibility that "free forever" would only apply to Model S, but yes that makes sense and will have to be the case. Upfront activation fee doesn't help with managing demand on-site, doesn't provide an incentive to move the car when it's done charging.
Payment can be handled through the car - Tesla is like Santa - they know when you are charging, they know when you are not. They can attach a credit card # to your account and bill monthly like a cell phone company. They may do that anyways if they start billing for connectivity (of course I hope they do not).
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Tesla does not know anything about your charging until you give explicit permission (at least that's what Tesla said during the Broder incident).
Charging for connectivity is different, since that a contract Tesla has with the mobile provider.
Again, I doubt the "freeloader" problem will be big enough to make the activation fee not be sufficient to cover the network's electricity/maintenance costs. My 10% estimate is likely very generous.
Even if free, forever, it is like free Windows updates. They aren't really free, just pre-paid.
The issue for me is the tragedy of the commons aspect. Without a per-use charge you end up with the same situation as someone taking all the lobster at the buffet. But, it is a brilliant marketing answer to road trip anxiety - so long as the selfishness of the users doesn't impact the availability of the service.
Kipernicus
Model S Res#P1440
But what about the map of past charging that comes with 4.5? I suppose one answer might be that the car knows but Tesla doesn't.
Anyways, I still think it's far easier for Tesla to do billing via the car (with the proper T&C's of course) rather than at the station, if they ever go that route.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
The car definitely does extensive data logging on its own (as it does in ICE cars too and even in the Roadster). Sending that data to Tesla however is a different matter (privacy issue).
I do agree however, it'll be easier to do billing via car. But a side point is that recent California law requires a non-member billing option for stations that charge a fee, so Tesla might be forced to add a payment interface to the superchargers anyways if they start charging money for a charge.
I had a converastion with an owner. 23,000 miles in 6 months, and 90%+ of his charging is done at a supercharger 2x daily! Thats a lot of free miles!! He could charge at home, but has decided that free is better!!
deonb
Active Member
Someone I know takes a 60 to 90 minutes 16 mile detour daily in order to avoid $4.62 of toll fees. In a car that gets 25mpg - so it's really just saving $2.00 per day. (Without considering any wear-and-tear on the car).
People sometimes have no concept of what their time is worth. They just see the $40 per month (which I grant to some people is a lot), but geez, worse case would you rather sit in traffic for 30 hours a month, or get a minimum wage job for 5 hours a month?
I think I am leaning towards the camp of slower recharging is better for the long term health of the battery pack.
I would minimize my use of the SC network to only those times it is needed for a long distance trip.
120 kW is a lot of energy to pound into a battery pack. The heat and speed cannot be good on a regular basis.
I know that Elon said there is not much of an impact from SC use. But the fact that they had to test the issue at all would indicate that there is likely some impact when it is done on a regular basis. Like anything else, (wine, liquor) when done in moderation there is likely going to be no long term consequences. But if you do it every day, I suspect that your battery pack will show more wear and tear compared to someone with a little more common sense.
I would minimize my use of the SC network to only those times it is needed for a long distance trip.
120 kW is a lot of energy to pound into a battery pack. The heat and speed cannot be good on a regular basis.
I know that Elon said there is not much of an impact from SC use. But the fact that they had to test the issue at all would indicate that there is likely some impact when it is done on a regular basis. Like anything else, (wine, liquor) when done in moderation there is likely going to be no long term consequences. But if you do it every day, I suspect that your battery pack will show more wear and tear compared to someone with a little more common sense.
That's interesting. Ever point that out to them? With the standard 10 cents/mile wear and year you hear about that brings it down to 40 cents a day. Perceived cost savings do make people do interesting things.
Does this owner do anything else with his life besides driving 6 hours a day plus another 2 hours hanging out at a supercharger?? lol
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