Is AP1 Supposed to be tipsy?

[FlyingCookie]

I've been in a P85D loaner while my P85 gets a new drive unit (milling sound) and a new drive unit mount (not sure why... Didn't bother to ask) had to be ordered, so i've taken the loaner on a few short road trips.

It seems to do a great job on straight paths on the interstate and divided highways, but when it starts making turns and such, it'll get VERY close to the inside line of the turn, sometimes even crossing it, and the display shows it doing this as its happening. The car KNOWS that it's not in the right place, but it still seems to do it and then take its sweet time correcting for it. These aren't super tight turns or anything, either, they're just gradual turns on the interstate.

I know AP2 isn't very solid yet, but I thought AP1 was better than this. I don't expect perfection (it struggles very badly on the road that my apartment is on, due to multiple intersections and a lot of sharp turns), but I remember the test drive AP1 car I drove last year being much more... stable. I did notice this car is pretty badly out of alignment, but I figured AP could correct for that or would just refuse to engage.

It's still great for road trips, but it doesn't seem as solid as I remember. Not sure if this is new with the latest software update, or if I've got a lemon loaner, or if my expectations are just too high...

 

[gjunky]

Our AP1 car seems to do much better than that. I really never see it go across a line. It might be just that loaner.

 

[thimel]

At full freeway speeds my AP1 car tends to go to the inside of a curve as it begins the turn. In never goes over the line. Ay lower speeds, it stays centered.

 

[Tiger]

... close to the inside line of the turn, sometimes even crossing it ...

Isn't AP supposed to learn from human drivers, and isn't this exactly how humans drive without oncoming traffic?

 

[whitex]

I noticed my AP1 bouncing between lanes recently in an area where it used to drive perfectly. I suspect Tesla is consolidating the AP1 and AP2 codelines and AP1 got AP2 algorithm recently (possibly AP1 was using stuff patented by MobileEye and Tesla couldn't use it on AP2). I posted about it recently. I worry that instead of AP2 getting to par with AP1, AP1 may end up on par with AP2.
Is AP1 and AP2 software consolidating?

 

[murphyS90D]

I see many human drivers that appear to have no concept of staying between the lines on a curve.

 

[Skipdd]

I noticed my AP1 bouncing between lanes recently in an area where it used to drive perfectly. I suspect Tesla is consolidating the AP1 and AP2 codelines and AP1 got AP2 algorithm recently (possibly AP1 was using stuff patented by MobileEye and Tesla couldn't use it on AP2). I posted about it recently. I worry that instead of AP2 getting to par with AP1, AP1 may end up on par with AP2.
Is AP1 and AP2 software consolidating?

Wow. Reminds me of a Kurt Vonnegut short story where means were determined for everything and adjustments were made to force everything to the mean, e.g., if you were below the mean for height, you wore boosters, and if you were taller, you wore weights to force you to bend over. Great lesson in trying to make things the same.

 

[whitex]

Wow. Reminds me of a Kurt Vonnegut short story where means were determined for everything and adjustments were made to force everything to the mean, e.g., if you were below the mean for height, you wore boosters, and if you were taller, you wore weights to force you to bend over. Great lesson in trying to make things the same.

I don't think they'd do it to bring AP1 on par with AP2, but I do think it's possible they would do it to simplify their software development, and possibly any licensing issues (if they were using any algorithms licensed from MobileEye that couldn't be licensed for AP2). Same result, different motivation.

 

[davidc18]

AP 1.0 rock solid for us

 

[FlyingCookie]

Isn't AP supposed to learn from human drivers, and isn't this exactly how humans drive without oncoming traffic?

I mean, you're not wrong... But i'm a better than usual human driver, and I tend to keep my car between the lines instead of on top of the lines...

I see many human drivers that appear to have no concept of staying between the lines on a curve.

I see many that don't even recognize that there are lines on a straight road... Hopefully AP doesn't start driving like the average Joe/Jane... I'll never use it if it does.

 

[bmah]

I mean, you're not wrong... But i'm a better than usual human driver, and I tend to keep my car between the lines instead of on top of the lines...

As an aside, I thought that there was a study result that a majority of human drivers think they're better than average?

AP1 (and presumably AP2) doesn't learn to stay between the lines by copying what human drivers do. There are entire threads dedicated to the use of machine learning in Telsa autopilot, but it's more for recognizing certain images and situations than how to behave.

My AP1 car is great. It can get close to the lines on tight turns (tight being relative to freeway speeds) but I haven't had it cross a line in a very long time. I usually start paying a little more attention to what it's doing if I see some curves up ahead just in case I need to bail it out. Note that's "bail it out" not "bail out"

Bruce.

 

[EVCarGUy]

The car KNOWS that it's not in the right place, but it still seems to do it and then take its sweet time correcting for it. These aren't super tight turns or anything, either, they're just gradual turns on the interstate.

Yep, my AP1 does this (march 2015 S 85D). It's annoying because the car KNOWS it's crossing the lane lines but does it anyway. Usually, it's gradual right turns, and the car crosses the left line.

 

[odguy]

fwiw my AP1 MS is tipsy

 

[David_Cary]

My AP 1.0 definitely seems to be getting tipsy, as in it was better 6 months ago. The algorithm sharing seems to be the issue.
I will say that there have always been times when it sees the lines and crosses them. I mean we all understand if it isn't seeing the lines but there are times when it does. There was a thread about this even before the evil 2.0 came out. It just seems worse now to me.

But it could also be the lowering of the sun's angle and more shadows. Just like range complaints get worse in the winter, AP complaints maybe worse in the November time frame as we approach late Dec.

 

[FlyingCookie]

As an aside, I thought that there was a study result that a majority of human drivers think they're better than average?

/begin defense

I actually remember that study, though I don't remember the specifics of it. I do know that when judging Nashville traffic (People unable to drive between the lines, randomly slowing down for no reason, tail-gating, swerving on the interstate, merging into spots they can't fit in, squatting in the left lane, blah blah blah) I am typically able to react to events happening in front of the car in front of me... Before the car in front of me does. I also regularly predict what is going to happen around me and try and make sure i'm not in someone else's way. A great example of this is seeing that a car is coming up behind me on the interstate, and going ahead and merging into the right lane so they can get by without having to slow down... Even if I have to slow down for a few seconds to let them by.

Aka, I'm both attentive and considerate of other drivers. I do speed, I make mistakes, I text and drive at times, but it's almost unheard of to see me try and merge into another lane I can't fit in, and I'm hardly ever holding up traffic in the left lane, not paying attention at a red light, and other common face-palm inducing moments on the road.

I also drive almost 90K miles/year, so I guess I have more experience than a lot of people under 55...

/end defense

I've also noticed that when changing lanes, AP seems to do the human thing... It'll drift towards the outside of the lane it's changing in to, and then come back and center after a few seconds... REALLY not a fan of that...

 

[FlyingCookie]

Update: Last night Autopilot decided to not just cross the yellow line, but veer hard left very suddenly to attempt to run me into the guardrail at 80MPH. Today it tried to run into the car to my right at about 15MPH. Thankfully both times I reacted quickly enough to keep anything bad from happening, but the event last night actually caused some rubber to be left on the ground where the car slid slightly sideways in my attempt to NOT pile into the guard rail.... This was also on a perfectly straight road. I didn't get around to looking at the IC until after I had already gotten back between the lines, so i'm not sure if the car lost the lines or tried to dodge a phantom car to my right.

I think Autopilot is either suicidal, or trying to murder me. Not sure which.

 

[bmah]

Update: Last night Autopilot decided to not just cross the yellow line, but veer hard left very suddenly to attempt to run me into the guardrail at 80MPH. Today it tried to run into the car to my right at about 15MPH. Thankfully both times I reacted quickly enough to keep anything bad from happening, but the event last night actually caused some rubber to be left on the ground where the car slid slightly sideways in my attempt to NOT pile into the guard rail.... This was also on a perfectly straight road. I didn't get around to looking at the IC until after I had already gotten back between the lines, so i'm not sure if the car lost the lines or tried to dodge a phantom car to my right.

I think Autopilot is either suicidal, or trying to murder me. Not sure which.

Just based on your description above, I'm wondering if there's something wrong with that car (hardware-wise, perhaps). Maybe you should call the service center and get it on the record there's a problem? (I probably wouldn't use autosteer if it behaved like that.)

Bruce.

 

[FlyingCookie]

Just based on your description above, I'm wondering if there's something wrong with that car (hardware-wise, perhaps). Maybe you should call the service center and get it on the record there's a problem? (I probably wouldn't use autosteer if it behaved like that.)

Bruce.

I'm turning the loaner in today, and I have a laundry list of issues with it for them. Something certainly isn't right. There's also some squeaking from the front left suspension, as well as a terrible front motor drone.