Is model 3 ready for future self driving?

[seanQ6]

we purchased a model 3 Mid-Range on dec 31st. When we purchased it, we were told it had all the hardware for self driving updates. We also purchased the auto pilot upgrade for 5,000. From what I’m reading, it now seems like the model 3 will almost immediately need a hardware update run full self driving point to point.

We were not given any information on this, nor were we told that there was also a now hidden upgrade path to full self driving that will also require a cpu upgrade. I understand tech moves fast, but it seems like Tesla could be much more forward on this option, how it would work and what it will cost.

 

[Vitold]

Do you feel that you were made believe that self driving will be a future upgrade at no cost to you?

 

[Derek Kessler]

If you've paid for FSD, then the CPU upgrade will be performed at no cost to you.

 

[commasign]

The Tesla website makes it very clear that enhanced autopilot and full self driving are upgrades you have to pay for.

 

[seanQ6]

The Tesla website makes it very clear that enhanced autopilot and full self driving are upgrades you have to pay for.

I understand, but I was not told a cpu upgrade would be required.

 

[Knightshade]

I understand, but I was not told a cpu upgrade would be required.

Why would you care?

If you bought the feature (FSD) then the upgrade is free.

If you didn't then the upgrade isn't needed at all (since FSD is the only thing the upgrade is needed for)

 

[seanQ6]

Why would you care?

If you bought the feature (FSD) then the upgrade is free.

If you didn't then the upgrade isn't needed at all (since FSD is the only thing the upgrade is needed for)

I was sold the car with the understanding it was ready for fsd with an update this year. I specifically asked if the car had all of the sensors and equipment to work in the future.

Fsd was not even mentioned and is no longer an option to purchase on web page.

 

[WileyTheMan]

It looks like he bought his car after they removed the FSD option, so I have a feeling a sales rep spoke of FSD in an uninformed way.

OP: Currently FSD is not an option for the Model 3, but we are told it will be with a hardware update in the future at our expense. Some people did buy FSD in the past when it was offered as an option, and those people will get free hardware updates as a result.

 

[Knightshade]

FSD is still an option- you just have to ask for it now instead of having it presented during the initial order process

 

[OPRCE]

1. A sensor suite (HW v2.5) allegedly fit for FSD is already included in all new Teslas.
2. All new Teslas built after ~15 March 2019 will come with Driving Controller upgraded to HW3.
3. Activating the FSD option, via software update, costs ~$5,000 extra.
4. Only if you purchase the FSD option will your Driving Controller be upgraded to HW3 gratis from ~August 2019 onwards.
5. Tesla claims that HW v2.5 (current) Driving Controller is sufficient for on-ramp to off-ramp L2 (continuously supervised) EAP on motorway, but this remains to be seen, as this hardware by their own admission has already just about exhausted its computational capacity and EAP is still in a very rough Alpha state.
6. Many doubt that the HW v2.5 sensor suite is sufficient to safely fulfil even the EAP goal, as e.g. the radar is unreliable at highway speeds.
7. I personally expect that the sensor suite will need to be upgraded along with Driving Controller HW3 (or the subsequent HW4) in order to achieve true L5 FSD, and was reassured at point of sale that this would be done for free if it proves necessary.
8. I also expect that new Tesla's delivered mid-2019 with HW3 Driving Controller will perform much better in EAP (by being capable of running expanded neural nets) than those remaining stuck on HW2.5.

 

[Vitold]

I understand, but I was not told a cpu upgrade would be required.

Tesla cars get improvements all the time. Your car is up to specs that you purchased.

At this time Tesla is not selling FSD so sales advisor should not have promised you that hardware you are buying is FSD capable. Do you see it on any of the documents you signed?

We do hear that car can be upgraded to FSD for an undetermined fee in the future.

 

[commasign]

What difference does it make? Nothing has changed. To get FSD you have to pay to upgrade your car. The only new information is now we know that the upgrade is both hardware and software rather than just software. No one has ever said or implied that the upgrade would be free.

Before:

HW2, HW2.5
If you want FSD, you have to pay for it.

Now:

HW2, HW2.5
If you want FSD, you have to pay for it.

Future:

HW2, HW2.5, HW3, HW3.5, etc.,
If you want FSD, you have to pay for it.

 

[Knightshade]

To be fair to the poster, the problem is Tesla tells you (and STILL is telling you)

Model 3 comes standard with advanced hardware capable of providing Enhanced Autopilot features today, and full self-driving capabilities in the future.

That's factually untrue- it doesn't come with the HW to provide FSD capabilities. We know for a fact it will require HW that didn't come standard in the cars sold today.

This doesn't make a ton of practical difference so long as Tesla keeps its promise that any needed HW upgrades will be "free" if you already have purchased FSD... though it DOES make some difference in that you might, if you know this in advance, decide to buy FSD when it's cheaper- because the more extra HW upgrades that are needed the pricier it'll likely be to add later to an older build.

 

[N5329K]

Be happy. You saved yourself the (substantial) cost of buying a future full self-driving capability that may or may not arrive in time to install while you still own your Model 3.
Robin

 

[Knightshade]

Be happy. You saved yourself the (substantial) cost of buying a future full self-driving capability that may or may not arrive in time to install while you still own your Model 3.
Robin

That doesn't make much sense given the timetable involved.

If they weren't planning to offer any new features that require HW3, why would they go through the expense to develop, and switch all new cars within the next 6 months, to having HW3 from the factory.... plus upgrade all existing cars that paid for FSD to HW3?


I'm not suggesting we'll see level 5 FSD in 6 months. But we should absolutely see some FSD-only features in roughly that time frame (or I suppose 6-12 months given Elon time). Otherwise the very existence of HW3 makes no sense.

 

[N5329K]

That doesn't make much sense given the timetable involved.

If they weren't planning to offer any new features that require HW3, why would they go through the expense to develop, and switch all new cars within the next 6 months, to having HW3 from the factory.... plus upgrade all existing cars that paid for FSD to HW3?


I'm not suggesting we'll see level 5 FSD in 6 months. But we should absolutely see some FSD-only features in roughly that time frame (or I suppose 6-12 months given Elon time). Otherwise the very existence of HW3 makes no sense.

I think a lot of stars have to align before FSD becomes an actual, working, widely-useful thing. The hardware is just one one of them. That's why I think there's a non-zero chance that FSD of the "take me home, James" variety will not appear soon enough to use (the average car owner keeps their new car for about six years). Some features have a better chance of showing up sooner, of course.
Robin

 

[Knightshade]

I think a lot of stars have to align before FSD becomes an actual, working, widely-useful thing. The hardware is just one one of them. That's why I think there's a non-zero chance that FSD of the "take me home, James" variety will not appear soon enough to use (the average car owner keeps their new car for about six years). Some features have a better chance of showing up sooner, of course.
Robin

Right.

i mean that's literally what i just said.

I don't think anybody realistically expects L5 anytime soon (not even Elon no matter what he tweets).

But at least some future FSD capability should be rolling out to FSD buyers this year. (otherwise HW3 has no reason to even exist)- thus the $ spend on FSD isn't for vaporware at that point.

 

[Vitold]

To be fair to the poster, the problem is Tesla tells you (and STILL is telling you)



That's factually untrue- it doesn't come with the HW to provide FSD capabilities. We know for a fact it will require HW that didn't come standard in the cars sold today.

This doesn't make a ton of practical difference so long as Tesla keeps its promise that any needed HW upgrades will be "free" if you already have purchased FSD... though it DOES make some difference in that you might, if you know this in advance, decide to buy FSD when it's cheaper- because the more extra HW upgrades that are needed the pricier it'll likely be to add later to an older build.

That Tesla quote does not claim that the car has FSD hardware but that self driving ‘capabilities’ will be offered in the future.

 

[OPRCE]

Right.

i mean that's literally what i just said.

I don't think anybody realistically expects L5 anytime soon (not even Elon no matter what he tweets).

But at least some future FSD capability should be rolling out to FSD buyers this year. (otherwise HW3 has no reason to even exist)- thus the $ spend on FSD isn't for vaporware at that point.

Yep, right now Tesla employees are Beta-testing HW3 with the expanded neural nets, which reportedly handles roundabouts, stop signs, traffic lights, etc., very competently, so we should certainly expect to see some sort of incomplete and supervised "FSD" features released to the public fleet this year.

 

[Vitold]

Yep, right now Tesla employees are Beta-testing HW3 with the expanded neural nets, which reportedly handles roundabouts, stop signs, traffic lights, etc., very competently, so we should certainly expect to see some sort of incomplete and supervised "FSD" features released to the public fleet this year.

I am guessing this is why Tesla removes it as an option because realistically no one can tell when it will be ready for public consumption.