Is NOA respecting solid white lines?

[RRM998]

I’ve had several occupancies now where NOA seemed to wait for the white line to change to a dashed line to make a lane change. I’ve also requested a lane change that would cross a white line via turn signal and had it ignore my request.

Is the AP now paying attention to solid white lines? Or just coincidence?

 

[Tam]

...Is the AP now paying attention to solid white lines?...

Shortly after the death of Apple engineer Walter Huang in Mountainview, CA, Tesla seemed to block Auto Lane Change with a solid white line.

Without that rule, Auto Lance Change could allow your car automatically steering into a gore point such as below during daylight:

Solid White Line violation at night:

There was quite a passionate discussion that Auto Lane Change was impossible in the above death because the automation would not allow it.

Did Tesla read through 144 pages of TMC discussion above? Who knows why the ban after the fatal accident? It could be a coincidence!

 

[GalacticHero]

Yes, I've been driving down the freeway several times when it signaled an auto lane change while the lanes were striped then it canceled when they went solid. The freeway on my work route is under massive construction so there are lots of transitions to sold stripe for construction zones. In fact, even with auto pilot no engaged it will give you and audio alert and change the line to red if you try to manually change over a white line, at least the ones it believes are road edges. I haven't tested that on no-passing sold lines yet.

I only noticed that latter behaviour the other day. As I mentioned, there is a lit of construction. On the exit I take off the freeway for my office, they recently changed the striping -again- painting the edge stripe way too far away from the actual road edge. When I tried to just drive over the top of it, I got the massive klaxons and visual alerts. Startled me because I thought someone was about to change lanes through me or something, but no one was around.

 

[DCGOO]

I’ve had several occupancies now where NOA seemed to wait for the white line to change to a dashed line to make a lane change. I’ve also requested a lane change that would cross a white line via turn signal and had it ignore my request.

Is the AP now paying attention to solid white lines? Or just coincidence?

No coincidence. It faithfully honors the solid lines, as it is technically illegal to cross a solid line lane boundary (which most human drivers ignore)

 

[InTheMiddle]

Thru 2019.8.4 (inclusive), auto lane change (NOA or otherwise) would refuse to cross a solid white line into or out of the carpool lanes here in AZ. On 2019.8.5, auto lane change will cross the solid white line into and out of the carpool lanes perfectly. Note that here in AZ, the carpool lane is separated for the entire length, without the periodic dashed lines that other states use to specify that carpool lanes can only be entered / exited at demarcated spots; hence it is perfectly legal to cross the solid white line.

 

[Big Dog]

It faithfully honors the solid lines, as it is technically illegal to cross a solid line lane boundary (which most human drivers ignore)

Depends on the state in which the human drivers live. Crossing a solid white line is not illegal in California (unless its a turn lane).....

 

[ewoodrick]

Depends on the state in which the human drivers live. Crossing a solid white line is not illegal in California (unless its a turn lane).....

But it should be. That's the very defintion of solid vs dashed. Just seems that a few DOTs decided to go against federal standards.

 

[dblankenbaker]

On 2019.8.5, auto lane change will cross the solid white line into and out of the carpool lanes perfectly.

Yay! That has been my only beef with auto-pilot!!

 

[azred]

No coincidence. It faithfully honors the solid lines, as it is technically illegal to cross a solid line lane boundary (which most human drivers ignore)

Technically illegal? Please cite the specific law so I can let the AZ Legislature know what law is violated by our solid white lines separating carpool lanes from other lanes. Hopefully you aren’t referring to some federal “standard” that has been mentioned a few times in posts here including at least once in this thread.

 

[azred]

Yay! That has been my only beef with auto-pilot!!

Don’t celebrate yet. I noticed where there are double white lines on some Phoenix freeways to separate carpool from other lanes, I got the giant steering wheel icon with a jarring audio warning. I guess it is interpreting that situation as a stop sign. Where single white lines separate carpool from other lanes, everything seems to work. (Both of my cars are on 2019.8.5)

 

[Tam]

California DMV says:


"A single or double solid white line dividing traffic lanes going in the same direction cannot be crossed for any reason."

"Thicker solid white lines are used to separate parts of left and right turn lanes close to the intersection. If you pass the part of the turn lane that has a broken white line or no line, you may not turn over the solid line to enter the turn lane."

Auto Lane Change worked fine with a solid white line for me in March 2018 with V8 2018.10.4.

However, by April 2018, it could no longer do so starting with V8 2018.12 to the current V9 2019.8.5 . Very annoying with its refusal to auto lane change on the single solid white line to get in and out of a carpool lane.

Will the next one 2019.12 restore that function again?

 

[DCGOO]

Technically illegal? Please cite the specific law so I can let the AZ Legislature know what law is violated by our solid white lines separating carpool lanes from other lanes. Hopefully you aren’t referring to some federal “standard” that has been mentioned a few times in posts here including at least once in this thread.

The book is here Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices (MUTCD) - FHWA

The lane marking section is here Chapter 3B - MUTCD 2009 Edition - FHWA

Some States exercise some editorial control over how it is implemented. But adoption is mandated by Federal Law. I know in my State, there is quite a variety of marking standards. I suspect new construction is compliant. Older roads not so much.

I imagine Tesla tries to get the car to recognize road markings as much as possible. I know my car set itself up for an auto lane change, but the line went solid before the car moved, and canceled the change. All automatically.

 

[azred]

The book is here Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices (MUTCD) - FHWA

The lane marking section is here Chapter 3B - MUTCD 2009 Edition - FHWA

Some States exercise some editorial control over how it is implemented. But adoption is mandated by Federal Law. I know in my State, there is quite a variety of marking standards. I suspect new construction is compliant. Older roads not so much.

I imagine Tesla tries to get the car to recognize road markings as much as possible. I know my car set itself up for an auto lane change, but the line went solid before the car moved, and canceled the change. All automatically.

Thanks for the reference and according to Figure 3D-3 Markings for Contiguous Preferential Lanes it is “discouraged” but not “prohibited” to cross a solid white line, so AZ use of a solid white line that may be crossed should clearly be in compliance.

(Those HOV areas with two lines about two feet apart seem to be more questionable. They aren’t like the prohibited double white lines, so perhaps AZ got a waiver to add them in certain spots where they provide an extra margin of safety between the lanes. It is a little hairy to be going 60 or 70 when adjoining traffic is crawling and impatient drivers may pull out into the fast HOV traffic.)

 

[nateliv]

Fri 10 Apr 2009 15:52
Solid White Lines - Armitage Shanks {p}
I think it is there, in mildly reflective paint, to show you both edges of the road, rather than expensive and increasingly rare catseyes which show you the centre line.

 

[nateliv]

[QUOTE="I think it is there, in mildly reflective paint, to show you both edges of the road, rather than expensive and increasingly rare catseyes which show you the centre line.[/QUOTE]