Isn't this blatant false advertising by Tesla??!! ... and a few more questions

[iqless]

Hi all, I've put down a deposit on a P90DL from 2015, and then went on to read about its problems (those events happened in that order cuz me dum).... so I am hugely confused now as to what to do.

Can anyone who has this model (or has a lot of info about it) answer these questions? Thank you.

1. All P90DL's are advertised as 2.6sec, which is MUCH faster than P85D's (3.2sec) and almost the same as P100DL's (2.4 sec). But from what I've read, P90DL's are nowhere near capable of doing this, especially older ones like mine, which are much closer to P85D than P100DL.

Tesla is publishing those figures on individual pages for every PARTICULAR vehicle. I'd get it if it was a common spec sheet download, but in this case, on the CPO page of my particular P90DL, it literally said 2.6 sec 0-60, and I was fooled by that. Should've known better I guess.

2. I know it's impossible to know which battery my car has , but it's marked as having "Range Upgrade" which means it was originally a P85D but got a new battery installed. Does this mean anything in terms of version/performance?

3. Has the "no launch / max battery mode" problem been fixed on P90DL's?

4. I don't have anything to measure performance with, so I guess I'll have to rely on the instant power indicator on the dashboard. Do you guys have any idea what kind of max numbers I should be seeing there, on/off max battery and launch mode?

5. The car was listed as having 270 miles of range. I'm sure it does not, especially with the problems the 90kWh packs are reported to have. If any of you guys have P90DL's (esp. earlier ones) can you tell me how much range you have left?

6. Should I possibly ditch this car and get a P85D (not DL) for about 7 grand cheaper?

Thanks a lot for any input here, guys.

 

[Krash]

2. I know it's impossible to know which battery my car has...

Actually you can look at the sticker under the right front wheel well, or have someone do that for you if it is in another location.

3. Has the "no launch / max battery mode" problem been fixed on P90DL's?

Launch and max battery should be fixed in firmware 2019.16.2.

 

[HankLloydRight]

2. I know it's impossible to know which battery my car has , but it's marked as having "Range Upgrade" which means it was originally a P85D but got a new battery installed. Does this mean anything in terms of version/performance?

That's not what it means (new battery installed)... see this thread (not that it's any less confusing): P90d w/ range upgrade questions

6. Should I possibly ditch this car and get a P85D (not DL) for about 7 grand cheaper?

Many people would say yes, especially if you can find an early P85D with the Performance Plus suspension. See: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/performance-plus-upgrade.85204

The difference in 0-60 between P85D and P90D isn't so great, and you're not going to be doing launches every day (well, maybe the first week). The P85D is still a beast, has 'Insane' mode, and I wouldn't get too caught up on performance specs like that.

A used P85D should have a minimum of 245 miles of rated range.

 

[tomas]

Not sure you are dumb but I hate your tactics. Why the clickbait title slamming Tesla? Is that what you think it takes to get eyes in the Tesla forum? Why don’t you just ask for input on a preowned purchase 90 vs 85? Plenty of people would give you input.

 

[ewoodrick]

What are you going to be using the car for? Racing or driving?

If you are racing, you are getting the wrong car. Since you must be driving, it really doesn't matter.

 

[iqless]

Not sure you are dumb but I hate your tactics. Why the clickbait title slamming Tesla? Is that what you think it takes to get eyes in the Tesla forum? Why don’t you just ask for input on a preowned purchase 90 vs 85? Plenty of people would give you input.

I apologize if it came out that way, when I made that post I was really frustrated - I put down a deposit and arranged the pickup of the car solely based on what Tesla was telling me on their used page for my car, but then I read about the battery problems and performance P90DL's have and felt extremely misled and extremely stupid (the two go hand in hand).

From what I've been seeing, P90DL's can have a lot of different battery versions, each with its own capabilities, and earlier V1 batteries are much closer to P85D's than P100DL's, but the Tesla used page lists them all as having the performance of the best possible battery. I'm not saying Tesla should have taken my car to the track to measure things, but they do know which battery it has, at least they could have tried to be more truthful and less misleading by grouping P90D's by battery version before issuing performance numbers.

Same thing with range. This is a 4 year old car, especially with the possible range degradation issues specific to 90kWh cars, it could have significantly lowered range. And yet Tesla is not telling me what the range is even though they so easily could. It's like reporting mileage - you can just literally look in the car and publish the range numbers for every specific car that way. How is telling me the car has 270 miles of range (which it's guaranteed to not have) (even though they could tell me the right one so easily) doing the right thing?

It might not be illegal, but it sure is very misleading.... to quote a master thinker, "it's not fraud", but "it's false advertising".

 

[tomas]

I don’t think there’s anyone in the world selling used cars that doesn’t advertise using the new car spec. So if it is aggregious, it is by no means unique to Tesla. My kudos to you on doing your research. I have a P85, so have not tuned in to the threads about 90 batteries. I’ve got the very first generation 85 battery. Aside from being limited to 90 kW supercharging, it has proven great.

Personally I would never buy a used car without seeing it and driving it. But if you want a serious assessment maybe someone in this forum would look at it for you. Do you know where it is?

 

[iqless]

What are you going to be using the car for? Racing or driving?

If you are racing, you are getting the wrong car. Since you must be driving, it really doesn't matter.

You aren't wrong, but I could have gotten a P85D for quite a bit cheaper and if the performance is essentially the same it would bother me. I'm not saying 0-60 in 3.2 secs is slow... I'm just saying I thought I was paying for something faster.

 

[lskarp]

I purchased a used 2015 85D. Even without the P upgrade, Acceleration off the line is super fast, much faster than the vast majority of ICE cars. And all ICE cars at a $45K price point. Plus, after the first week or 2, you will likely go back to more reasonable takeoffs. For me, the 40-80 mph acceleration is more important and impressive. Let me pass that guy on the 2 lane road, or quickly get up to speed on the freeway! The line speed is a parlor trick IMO.
As far as range, the biggest factor is how you drive the car. If you mash and dash, you can run any battery out very fast. If you drive moderately you will get a mile in 285-325 watts. That will get you close to rates range in warm climates.
I would not get hung up too much on the minutiae.
I love my 85D, especially for the price.
Relax and enjoy the best ride available!

 

[iqless]

I purchased a used 2015 85D. Even without the P upgrade, Acceleration off the line is super fast, much faster than the vast majority of ICE cars. And all ICE cars at a $45K price point. Plus, after the first week or 2, you will likely go back to more reasonable takeoffs. For me, the 40-80 mph acceleration is more important and impressive. Let me pass that guy on the 2 lane road, or quickly get up to speed on the freeway! The line speed is a parlor trick IMO.
As far as range, the biggest factor is how you drive the car. If you mash and dash, you can run any battery out very fast. If you drive moderately you will get a mile in 285-325 watts. That will get you close to rates range in warm climates.
I would not get hung up too much on the minutiae.
I love my 85D, especially for the price.
Relax and enjoy the best ride available!

I totally hear you. I own a 85D as well. My nitpicking is based on the fact that, as you said, the car is already very fast!

 

[Ostrichsak]

I apologize if it came out that way, when I made that post I was really frustrated - I put down a deposit and arranged the pickup of the car solely based on what Tesla was telling me on their used page for my car, but then I read about the battery problems and performance P90DL's have and felt extremely misled and extremely stupid (the two go hand in hand).

From what I've been seeing, P90DL's can have a lot of different battery versions, each with its own capabilities, and earlier V1 batteries are much closer to P85D's than P100DL's, but the Tesla used page lists them all as having the performance of the best possible battery. I'm not saying Tesla should have taken my car to the track to measure things, but they do know which battery it has, at least they could have tried to be more truthful and less misleading by grouping P90D's by battery version before issuing performance numbers.

Same thing with range. This is a 4 year old car, especially with the possible range degradation issues specific to 90kWh cars, it could have significantly lowered range. And yet Tesla is not telling me what the range is even though they so easily could. It's like reporting mileage - you can just literally look in the car and publish the range numbers for every specific car that way. How is telling me the car has 270 miles of range (which it's guaranteed to not have) (even though they could tell me the right one so easily) doing the right thing?

It might not be illegal, but it sure is very misleading.... to quote a master thinker, "it's not fraud", but "it's false advertising".

My hundred mile take is that you're putting WAY too much weight in what a few strangers say on the internet regarding the differences in 90 kWh battery revisions. Even if they're right and your v1 or v2 pack craps out early... who cares? You'll get it replaced with the newest version for free should that happen anyway.

You will thoroughly enjoy either a P85D or a P90D and likely wouldn't know the differences in performance even if you had them side by side and drove them back to back which you likely will never do. Don't stress. Buy what you want.

This whole v1, v2 & v3 fiasco with the 90 kWh cars & their differences is greatly overblown IMHO.