A relatively small and inexpensive Buck/Boost transformer will drop a 277VAC line to below 250VAC for a 100 amp circuit for Tesla Wall Connectors at a commercial site. I quickly found a specific part number that was in stock at several online suppliers for this purpose a short time ago.
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J3068 - 3 Phase A/C Charging for North America
- Thread starter EfficientWatts
- Start date
eprosenx
Active Member
Yeah, I was looking for options for these the other day. Do you have any links? Are they "autotransformers" (i.e. single coil for cost reasons)?
Also, I have wondered if like for my parking garage at work if I could find a transformer that would go 277/480 down to 138/240v. That would give me phase to phase voltage of 240v (in order to get the most efficient use out of the car chargers) but it would still be bonded on all three phase pairs so it would meet the GFCI requirements of the HPWC. You could do say three pairs of two HPWC's each on one phase pair (A-B, B-C, A-C) and communicating so that they did not draw too much between each pair of units to overload the conductors/breakers/transformer windings).
I guess the issue might be finding an output panel rated for 138/240v vs. 120/208v.
I found my prior post in the "Voltage Too High" thread. You would take the 277V from one hot and the neutral and run it through this multi-tap transformer. If the input was exactly 277V, you would get 244V. These transformers can be wired multiple different ways to get different results, either higher or lower voltage.
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/posts/2739105/
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/posts/2739105/
eprosenx
Active Member
You know, now that I think about it: I wonder if the Tesla would be OK with voltage created this way. The issue may be that one of the two “hot” conductors it is expecting is tied to ground. In a standard residential setup it will see 120v hot to neutral and 240v hot to hot. In a 208v three phase commercial setup it would be 120v phase to neutral and 208v phase to phase.
Obviously the UMC can operate with one leg tied to ground at 120v, but I am not sure if the UMC would be OK with 240v with one leg grounded or if the HPWC would be OK with any leg grounded under any situations since it does not say it supports 120v. ?
Thoughts on this?
I think the HPWC can operate in this manner. If you dig up the old manual before they removed 277 support, you can see a wiring diagram for how to hook up the HPWC in such a scenario (L-N). You may need to flip a dip switch to get it to work (even in the current manual they talk about it being a L-N / >240 V, but I suspect it may just be a L-N switch, especially since this would allow operation in 230V countries). Or maybe you don't even need to flip that switch and it just works.
Since the current version of the HPWC previously allowed a 277VAC L-N connection, a 240VAC L-N connection should also be OK. The switch issue mentioned above by @quantumslip is of course an open question.
sjokomelk
Member
At least for the Model X and facelift Model S, they all use the same charger in the car in both US and Europe. It consists of 3 modules capable of 24A max each. In the US they are connected in parallel to get a max of 72A at 240V, and in Europe they are connected in a star/wye config for 3x24A 230/400V 3-phase supply.
The charging plug on EU versions of Teslas is the standard Type2/Mennekes connector. No proprietary plugs allowed here.
And just as a curiosity - The superchargers are made of a stack of 12 of the original on-board chargers from the Model S. All running at 277V connected to a 277/480V 3-phase supply. That is why the HPWC could do 277V in the beginning.
eprosenx
Active Member
Good info! Thanks!
So what connector type does Tesla use for supercharging in Europe? Or do they have a network at all yet?
Also, how do the upgraded chargers in the current S and X work? Bigger of the same models? Just adding more does not make the math work out...
Also, any idea how the short range and long range model 3 chargers work? Again, assuming you need multiples of three for European charging, then do they have to make two versions of the same chargers to get differentiated amounts of capacity?
What did they do in the old model S units with the 40 or 80 amp chargers? Did they have a three phase European version at all? Was each charger three phase?
I have heard rumor of perhaps new supercharger hardware? I would presume based on the new S/X or model 3 base design? Or something totally different?
So many things to learn! My Model 3 should be here within a couple weeks!
sjokomelk
Member
In Europe it's the same Type2 plug used for both AC charging and supercharging.
We have an extensive and still expanding Supercharger network in Europe. First locations opened in August 2013 in Norway.
The charger in Model S and X is the same hardware in both 48A and 72A version. It is only limited in software. In Europe they run at 3x16A (same as 48A single phase US) in the 75D-models and 3x24A (72A single phase) in the 100D-models.
Since we don't have the Model 3 over here yet, I can't say anything about it. But I would guess that they use the same setup as the Model S and X - wire 3 modules in parallel for the US and in wye for Europe. And the charger should then be max 3x16A.
The old Model S had a different charger in Europe that in the US. You could have either one 3x16A charger - giving you 11kW, or dual 3x16A chargers giving you 22kW at 3x32A.
Volvo LIGHTS Project Broadens Electric Truck Charging Options In North America
Haven't heard much new on the J3068 front besides some standards release, but I noticed this. Looks like CCS2 is still coming in some form or fashion and along with it J3068. It will be seen if medium and heavy duty would use this more wide spread since there's alot of CCS1 buses and trucks already out there. Maybe dual heads of both types
Haven't heard much new on the J3068 front besides some standards release, but I noticed this. Looks like CCS2 is still coming in some form or fashion and along with it J3068. It will be seen if medium and heavy duty would use this more wide spread since there's alot of CCS1 buses and trucks already out there. Maybe dual heads of both types
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
Let me see if I am following
- CCS2 is now UL certified for deployment in the US
- Volvo wants deployment because their trucks are CCS2. They hawk CCS2 as superior for trucks because the standard supports 3 phase AC charging
Can someone remind me of the differences between CCS1 and CCS2 in terms of a Tesla adapter (other than the fact that a CCS2 -> Tesla adapter already exists) ?
Signal-wise they would be the same; there are CCS1<-> CCS2 adapters out there on the market. The main difference would be mainly physical. The area I'm not sure about is the locking mechanism as CCS2 is all on the car side which CCS1 its on the handle and if that would require any electronics.
Of course this would also mean the cars themselves would need to be able to understand and speak CCS.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
You jogged a foggy memory.
IIRC CCS1 is J1772 + DC while CCS2 is Type 2 + DC
Tesla put Type 2 in their European cars before the transition to CCS2.
I think that was why Tesla was able to make an adapter for CCS2 for European cars relatively easily, since they both speak Type 2.
Is that correct ?
Partially. Even though the older cars had type 2, they did not understand CCS. That's why for those cars they had to get an additional module installed to be able to understand CCS. they had no need to understand CCS before because it was not a full CCS plug with the DC pins.
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