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Just got 20" performance wheels installed on my Model 3!

TT97

Active Member
Aug 6, 2017
2,179
3,007
Los Angeles
It may be interesting to note that the ProContact RX tires that come on the 19" wheels have a UTQG rating of 400 and no low rolling resistance qualification per TireRack. The Pilot Sport 4S tires that come on the 20" wheels have a UTQG rating of 500 and are categorized as "eco" by TireRack. I'd be really interested to see how these tire/wheel combo's direct compare for highway efficiency.

Something is rotten in the state of Denmark. I am very suspicious of any max performance summer tire with a 500 UTQG. (especially when the same 20" PS4 tire not for Tesla has a UTQG of 300).
 
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They look great!

@deezevoltz - can you post a few more photos of the rear wheels? Also can you confirm are the rear wheels the same width as the front (8.5”) or are they wider?

I would also love to know any details about the modified rear upper fore links and what those do...

I'll take some more pictures of the exterior this afternoon.

Same width -- 8.5. All sizes are 8.5" wide.

I still need to figure out how to jack up the car up and buy those supplies before I can get some quality pictures underneath. I saw some 3d printed puck thing for a jack that I don't have, and I've also seen some type of ramps used like at the place I got the car wrapped.

I could also use some guidance on what parts of the suspension to take pictures of. I'm not sure if I can see the suspension changes without prying open the plastic skirt on the car.

After tweeting, the best I could get from you you xue -- I think he deleted the video I had mentioned earlier as a good place to get screen grabs -- was pictures from his Facebook like these:


Thanks.
 
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235wh/mile at 65mph isn’t bad at all. Pretty close to ideal. Hmmm... even more tempted to go with the 20” wheels.
I don’t know man. I got the 19 inch sport wheels and I love the look / feel. But the hit on the range seems to be significant. I think the 10 percent range hit reported here is correct. I would not be surprised if it’s even a bit higher. I took the car the Palm Springs yesterday. Drove 70 mph most of the way... not fast. I averaged 259 kWh.

All together if I drove to 0 percent I probably would have put about 260 miles of range tops. I charged all the way to 306 (100 percent) in the morning. Whatever I do It seems getting that EPA target is impossible.

I won’t be surprised if those performance tires slash your range by 15 percent.
 
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Zoomit

Active Member
Sep 1, 2015
2,305
4,553
SoCal
Your car has the stock springs, correct? Only suspension mods are the links they installed with the 20" wheels?

Here's deezevoltz's imgur pic:
TLXjXRW.jpg
 
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kbM3

Active Member
May 22, 2017
2,124
12,287
Orlando
The thing I find disappointing is that the 18s, 19s and 20s are all the same width, so there's very little in the way of performance improvement by upgrading, it's effectively all cosmetics (well, and hits to ride quality and damage likelihood). Yes there's a tiny amount of handling responsiveness improvement due to the smaller sidewall, but that's insignificant.

The Edmunds comparison of 18’s vs. 19’s showed the 19’s had superior braking, acceleration, lateral acceleration and ride.

I’m having a hard time deciding because I also love efficiency .
 

TT97

Active Member
Aug 6, 2017
2,179
3,007
Los Angeles
The Edmunds comparison of 18’s vs. 19’s showed the 19’s had superior braking, acceleration, lateral acceleration and ride.

I’m having a hard time deciding because I also love efficiency .

Get the 18s and spend the money you save on better tires - you'll get a better ride than the 19s with better efficiency.
 

Uncle Paul

Well-Known Member
Nov 1, 2013
6,299
7,647
Canyon Lake,CA
Tires are as important as wheel size for range.

The standard tires are optimized for range. The performance tires, not so much.

You will never get the EPA range driving at 70+ down the freeway. At 50 or so, your mileage will increase a bunch.

A Model 3 guy just achieved over 600 miles of range on a Model 3, but did so at around 25 mph.

YMMV
 

Knightshade

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2017
17,057
35,239
NC
The Edmunds comparison of 18’s vs. 19’s showed the 19’s had superior braking, acceleration, lateral acceleration and ride.

I’m having a hard time deciding because I also love efficiency .

As explained several times in numerous threads, that is 100% due to the 19s coming with slightly less crappy tires.

Put better tires on the 18s and they'll crush the 19s in every measurement.
 
As explained several times in numerous threads, that is 100% due to the 19s coming with slightly less crappy tires.

Put better tires on the 18s and they'll crush the 19s in every measurement.
They will crush the 19s but they will also have less life and be unusable in the snow.. also not everyone gets those the 19 inch wheels solely for performance. They do it for the look.

Also please show me any study that shows the continental pro contact as a “crappy tire”... again the fact that those tires are all season is a positive for some. I for sure would not have bought the sport wheels if they came with summer season tires.
 

Knightshade

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2017
17,057
35,239
NC
They will crush the 19s but they will also have less life and be unusable in the snow..

Sure- that's why they call them SUMMER tires. You don't use them in snow. In snow you use snow tires (which also make all-seasons look awful in those conditions).

Above 40 degrees summers will stop shorter, handle better, accelerate better- basically be better in every single way (other than tire life) compared to the all-seasons on the 19s.

Below 40, actual snow tires will do the same to the all-season 19s.

All seasons suck. In all season. When compared to dedicated seasonal tires.

That's the point.

They are a compromise that's not genuinely good at anything.

If you live someplace it only snows a few days a year (or not at all) then get summer tires. They're better, and safer too.

If you live someplace you actually have months of real winter, get two sets of wheels/tires, one summer, one winter, switch when the seasons change, and you'll have better, safer, tires ALL year compared to the all seasons.

also not everyone gets those the 19 inch wheels solely for performance. They do it for the look.

In which case they'd still get better actual safety and performance putting seasonal tires on those rims.

(though personally I don't like the look of the factory 19s, I get others might)

Also please show me any study that shows the continental pro contact as a “crappy tire”... again the fact that those tires are all season is a positive for some.

The only folks it's really a positive for are those who don't know that all-seasons are a compromise that are measurably worse than seasonal tires.

Tire Test: All-Season vs. Snow vs. Summer

There's Edmonds testing summer, snow, and all-seasons against each other- they tried to go with the 3 most similar tires they could (all from the same maker, all offered as OEM tires for the same factory car)... they actually ended up with Michelins (MXM4 vs PE2 vs PA3).

Their results?

In snow the all-seasons took over 60 feet longer to stop from 60 than the all-seasons did. The summers sucked of course- that's why if you live where it snows often you swap wheels in the winter.

In every condition above freezing? The all seasons sucked compared to the summers- In the wet in particular the all seasons again took nearly 60 feet longer to stop from 60 mph than the summer tires (58 exactly). It's not as awful in dry/warm, but the summers still stop 11 feet shorter even then.


Obviously some all seasons are better than others, but they're all pretty terrible compared to dedicated seasonals is the point.

And as you can see above I'm not talking better for drag racing, I'm talking about potentially stopping the car MANY car-lengths shorter than otherwise.
 
@Knightshade, those are surprising results between the stopping distance of the tires. Thanks for the good info! I’m more convinced about having summer and winter tires separate. And I’m happier about keeping the aeros for the winter tires. Although, would it make sense to get just the rubber swapped and not the rim? Costco does that type of work cheap.

Fun facts: I was looking at the rubber composition of the pilot 4S wheels on tire rack. I was surprised that they are labeled “max summer” tires instead of just “summer” tires. Haha. Sounds cooler? Anyways, with these particular tires, you are not supposed to put any weight on them when they reach a temperature below -7 degrees Celsius or 20 degrees Fahrenheit. Otherwise the rubber starts to crack and the wheels need to be replaced.

https://m.tirerack.com/tires/description.jsp?tireMake=Michelin&tireModel=Pilot+Sport+4S
 

Knightshade

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2017
17,057
35,239
NC
@Knightshade, those are surprising results between the stopping distance of the tires. Thanks for the good info! I’m more convinced about having summer and winter tires separate. And I’m happier about keeping the aeros for the winter tires. Although, would it make sense to get just the rubber swapped and not the rim? Costco does that type of work cheap.


As to if it's better to have 2 sets of rims or just 1 set you keep swapping rubber on- I can change wheels in my garage pretty easily/quickly... I'd have to take it to a shop and pay money to swap the actual tires- plus you'd also need to pay to have the wheels re-balanced each time.... plus constantly changing the tires on the same set of rims will cause extra wear and tear to both the tires and the rims.


So what most folks do is either:

Use the factory wheels for the winter tires if they don't like the factory rims much since they use them only a fraction of the year- and get "nicer" wheels for the summer tires.

Or- if they really like the factory wheels- use those for the summer tires- and buy a cheap set of wheels for the winter ones...

both have 2 other advantages-

1) The advantage that it gives you the option to run different sized tires (as long as overall wheel/tire diameter is the same both sets) because sometimes the ideal size summer tire isn't identical in size to the ideal winter tire....

2) You don't have to worry about driving the nicer wheels when there's a ton of salt and other crap on winter roads... or if you curb a rim because the snow didn't let you see quite where the curb was no biggie compared to doing it with "nice" wheels.




No, they're genuinely better performing tires than your typical summer tire.

Michelin did something weird with the 4S tires... they already had the widely-agreed best performance summer tire on the market- the Pilot Super Sport... and while it was still #1 they came out with an even better one. A lot of companies wait until a competitor has at least announced something that has vaguely caught up to you before they do that.

[QUOTE="deezevoltz, post: 2771102, member: 77805"][USER=63377]
Anyways, with these particular tires, you are not supposed to put any weight on them when they reach a temperature below -7 degrees Celsius or 20 degrees Fahrenheit. Otherwise the rubber starts to crack and the wheels need to be replaced.

[URL]https://m.tirerack.com/tires/description.jsp?tireMake=Michelin&tireModel=Pilot+Sport+4S[/URL]
[/QUOTE]

I mean, yeah, that's the point of them being [B]summer[/B] tires.

Above 30-40F they'll beat anything on the road.

Below it they're useless.

And that's true for nearly all summer tires. It's why you swap- to get the best safety and performance in all temp ranges- versus the mediocrity of compromising both of those things with all seasons.

So if you live someplace it gets below freezing for weeks or months at a time, run 2 sets of tires- winter tires for the winter, and summers the rest of the year.... when it's gonna get into "below freezing" season you swap the winter wheels on, and leave the summers in the garage.


If you live someplace where it's only below freezing a few days a year or something just run summers, and leave the car parked in the garage the couple of days the tires aren't usable.... that's a lot better option than running all-seasons and suffering with 20-30% longer stopping distances the other 99% of the year.
[/user]
 
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As to if it's better to have 2 sets of rims or just 1 set you keep swapping rubber on- I can change wheels in my garage pretty easily/quickly... I'd have to take it to a shop and pay money to swap the actual tires- plus you'd also need to pay to have the wheels re-balanced each time.... plus constantly changing the tires on the same set of rims will cause extra wear and tear to both the tires and the rims.


So what most folks do is either:

Use the factory wheels for the winter tires if they don't like the factory rims much since they use them only a fraction of the year- and get "nicer" wheels for the summer tires.

Or- if they really like the factory wheels- use those for the summer tires- and buy a cheap set of wheels for the winter ones...

both have 2 other advantages-

1) The advantage that it gives you the option to run different sized tires (as long as overall wheel/tire diameter is the same both sets) because sometimes the ideal size summer tire isn't identical in size to the ideal winter tire....

2) You don't have to worry about driving the nicer wheels when there's a ton of salt and other crap on winter roads... or if you curb a rim because the snow didn't let you see quite where the curb was no biggie compared to doing it with "nice" wheels.




No, they're genuinely better performing tires than your typical summer tire.

Michelin did something weird with the 4S tires... they already had the widely-agreed best performance summer tire on the market- the Pilot Super Sport... and while it was still #1 they came out with an even better one. A lot of companies wait until a competitor has at least announced something that has vaguely caught up to you before they do that.

[USER=63377]

I mean, yeah, that's the point of them being [B]summer[/B] tires.

Above 30-40F they'll beat anything on the road.

Below it they're useless.

And that's true for nearly all summer tires. It's why you swap- to get the best safety and performance in all temp ranges- versus the mediocrity of compromising both of those things with all seasons.

So if you live someplace it gets below freezing for weeks or months at a time, run 2 sets of tires- winter tires for the winter, and summers the rest of the year.... when it's gonna get into "below freezing" season you swap the winter wheels on, and leave the summers in the garage.


If you live someplace where it's only below freezing a few days a year or something just run summers, and leave the car parked in the garage the couple of days the tires aren't usable.... that's a lot better option than running all-seasons and suffering with 20-30% longer stopping distances the other 99% of the year.
[/user]

Would the Michelin Pilot 4S be more efficient and less noisy than the tires that come with the 18" aeros?
 

Knightshade

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2017
17,057
35,239
NC
Would the Michelin Pilot 4S be more efficient and less noisy than the tires that come with the 18" aeros?

Noise wise the P4S is considered very quiet for its class (ultra high performance summer tires) but it wouldn't shock me if meh all-seasons managed to be a little quieter.

I don't know that anyone has enough information to answer the efficiency question in detail... on the whole though the more traction a tire has the less "efficient" it likely is, but you're probably talking single digit percent differences there which I'm happy to give up for much shorter stopping distance and better handling and acceleration in all non-freezing weather.
 

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