Justification for 300 mile battery

[JRP3]

Plus the conventional tech will wear out in any Tesla, too. Steering, suspension, HVAC units, power windows, you name it. Thus, longevity of the battery is useless beyond longevity of the car.

However since EV's have a drive train that will last far longer than an ICE drive train there is motivation to replace items such as shocks, ball joints, etc, as necessary. Most vehicles that I have had or worked on for others have expensive engine, exhaust, emission, and transmission problems that appear long before any serious ball joint, steering rack, wheel bearing, springs, etc. Changing a bunch of parts out on a 150K ICE when you know the motor may not go another 25-50K doesn't make much sense, but I think it would on an EV with a motor that should easily go another 250K, will never fail an emissions test, and can possibly perform better than when new with an upgraded battery pack. This of course assumes that batteries continue to improve and get cheaper, and also assumes that Tesla is using top quality parts in all aspects of the vehicle.

 

[Larry Chanin]

Returning to battery range --

I'm particularly concerned about a thread in the official boards that suggests that the 160/230/320 ranges might all be using the old EPA method, and consequently they will all be restated downward to more realistic values at 70% those ranges, e.g. 112/161/224. That could be extremely disappointing and make the largest pack a no-brainer for me and, I suspect, many others.

Let's hope that the 160/230/320 figures are what real drivers will get under normal driving conditions!

Given the ranges have been stated for a few years, before the new EPA method, and it's in comparison to the Roadster's range, it's pretty much a given the Model S numbers are using the old EPA method. I seem to recall when Elon talked about reaching 300+ miles in testing he said "with the EPA2 test". I'm not sure where the video is though as it was one of the bazillions that came out shortly after the October event.

Hi,

There is no question in my mind that the Model S EPA range when the car is released will be about 70% of the advertised range.

Refer to posting #50.

Larry

 

[dsm363]

Tesla should consider advertising more realistic ranges then unless they're prohibited from doing so (not sure if they have to publicly quote EPA numbers or not).

 

[vfx]

The Rav4 though is tough. Remember the $60K sale? Then the LEAF killed the used pricing. The S and and X and new RAV$ (if purchasable) will do even more damage. It held because it was the only choice.

 

[Larry Chanin]

Tesla should consider advertising more realistic ranges then unless they're prohibited from doing so (not sure if they have to publicly quote EPA numbers or not).

Hi,

I hope that Tesla provides the same type of Range versus Speed graphs for the Model S as they provided for the Roadster.

To me this provides more useful information than even the more rigorus 5-cycle EPA tests.

Larry

 

[JRP3]

The Rav4 though is tough. Remember the $60K sale? Then the LEAF killed the used pricing. The S and and X and new RAV$ (if purchasable) will do even more damage. It held because it was the only choice.

Sure, that's why I said it was a limited production vehicle and the only one of it's kind. More to the point though is that after 10 years and 100K+ miles many of them are still working as new. I bet they are still holding good value on the rare occasion one goes up for sale, especially when you consider they don't get a $7500 tax rebate.

 

[vfx]

... I bet they are still holding good value on the rare occasion one goes up for sale, especially when you consider they don't get a $7500 tax rebate.

I'm just saying similar offerings have and will continue to make the R4 less unique and therefore less desirable/valuable. I'm sure we agree that the 100k mile bottom end RAV4 ICE and RAV4 EV resale will continue to be very different.

 

[Doug_G]

To me this provides more useful information than even the more rigorus 5-cycle EPA tests.

Larry

Yeah, that's what I pay attention to. I'd love to see that graph for the Model S. What I really want to know how the Model S performs on the highway. Will it go significantly farther than the Roadster at highway speeds?

Around town, either the 240 or 300 would be fine for me. I rarely get the Roadster below 50%, except on road trips.

 

[Larry Chanin]

Yeah, that's what I pay attention to. I'd love to see that graph for the Model S. What I really want to know how the Model S performs on the highway. Will it go significantly farther than the Roadster at highway speeds?

Around town, either the 240 or 300 would be fine for me. I rarely get the Roadster below 50%, except on road trips.

Hi Doug,

Exactly, for a car that you will recharge at home every evening, it really doesn't matter what the range is for city commuting. Pardon the pun, but where the rubber meets the road is what is the range at highway speeds.

Larry

 

[Doug_G]

Exactly, for a car that you will recharge at home every evening, it really doesn't matter what the range is for city commuting.
Larry

Agreed, if there's enough. For my usage, the ~100 km real-world range of the LEAF would be adequate for commuting to/from work, but right now it would be a problem for running errands around town because there's ZERO charging infrastructure here. Right now I can't even charge at the office (will be possible next fall).

The Roadster's range is perfect for my daily usage. I never come close to running out, which means I don't even have to think about it. For me ~200 km real world range would probably be enough to be completely comfortable without any charging infrastructure.

Pardon the pun, but where the rubber meets the road is what is the range at highway speeds.

All puns are welcomed here.

Yes. A 300 mile Model S plus a reasonable distribution of fast chargers around Southern Ontario, and maybe one in upstate New York, would completely eliminate my need for a gas car.

Well... except maybe for driving around the Calabogie Motorsports Park, which I have been known to do.

 

[Tempus]

Yeah, that's what I pay attention to. I'd love to see that graph for the Model S. What I really want to know how the Model S performs on the highway. Will it go significantly farther than the Roadster at highway speeds?

Around town, either the 240 or 300 would be fine for me. I rarely get the Roadster below 50%, except on road trips.

no question that graph would be incredibly more useful than the EPA numbers that keep getting thrown out. I'd REALLY love to know if i can make that road trip to the in-laws place 2 hours up 95... or to my sister's place outside phili... or, what speed would i have to drive to make that trip?

 

[NigelM]

I'd REALLY love to know if i can make that road trip to the in-laws place...

Why sacrifice a beautiful excuse? :wink:

 

[VolkerP]

Why sacrifice a beautiful excuse? :wink:

Still can do that even when in range:
"We'd love to see you but it is bad for the batteries!"

 

[Robert.Boston]

Still can do that even when in range:
"We'd love to see you but it is bad for the batteries!"

But at the other end,
"Oh, you can't leave now; you're battery isn't fully charged! Have some more coffee..."

 

[Tempus]

Why sacrifice a beautiful excuse? :wink:

well - it's not so much that we wouldn't go - i'd then just have to take the ICE car.

 

[neroden]

Hi,

I hope that Tesla provides the same type of Range versus Speed graphs for the Model S as they provided for the Roadster.

View attachment 3693

To me this provides more useful information than even the more rigorus 5-cycle EPA tests.

Larry

Absolutely. I want that graph for the Model S as well. Then I can figure my range based on the actual nature of the roads I'll be driving on (no speed limit above 65 for much of the distance -- this is NY!)

 

[Kipernicus]

85kWh battery is the best value! it's like you get an extra 5kWh free with your $10k increase over the 60, which is $10k over the 40.
If Costco sold the Model S, it would only come with the 85.

 

[Kipernicus]

Another plus with the 85 - unlimited miles warranty within 8 years.

 

[Cobos]

Also the full performance is unlocked. It seems especially the 40kWh battery has a quite a lot lower top speed and 0-100 times. Still I only need 40kWh I believe... well not much point discussing it before I get the EU price anyway.

Cobos

 

[qwk]

Another plus with the 85 - unlimited miles warranty within 8 years.

This is unprescedented! It looks like a Sport for me then...