Karma -vs- Model S

[Mile Erlic]

I like Model S, Model X etc.. reminds me of the early days of Ford. Good karma, bad karama - which one is it?

 

[vfx]

..... reminds me of the early days of Ford..

Hi Mike welcome to the forum.

You must be at least 100 years old to remember Ford's early days!

 

[smorgasbord]

Here's a diagram from Fisker of the Karma's drivetrain:

It's from the High Voltage Safety and First Responder Info Guide

Kind of a lot going on there.

 

[FalconNinetyD]

Here's a diagram from Fisker of the Karma's drivetrain:

View attachment 6727

It's from the High Voltage Safety and First Responder Info Guide

Kind of a lot going on there.

Yeah, not quite as elegant as the Tesla skateboard...

 

[vfx]

View attachment 6727

 

[Mycroft]

Ooooo yes, Tesla's amazing magical drivetrain! Makin' me drool!

 

[Fr23shjive]

Here's a diagram from Fisker of the Karma's drivetrain:

View attachment 6727

It's from the High Voltage Safety and First Responder Info Guide

Kind of a lot going on there.

So many parts that could break. I like the Tesla because is has LESS moving parts, not more.

 

[VolkerP]

Here's a diagram from Fisker of the Karma's drivetrain...

IMHO not complete. The inverters are missing. That would be two more units atop of the rear axle, right?

 

[MitchL]

IMHO not complete. The inverters are missing. That would be two more units atop of the rear axle, right?

Certainly the inverter's already in that picture, right? It's amazing how different the two drivetrains are.

The Model S "motor & inverter between rear wheels" is just awesome.

/Mitch.

 

[vfx]

The Karma's tunnel just seems such a head scratcher when compared like this.

I want the world to see this Tesla picture. Too bad the new S brochure does not show it this way.

 

[SoCalGuy]

View attachment 6727


View attachment 6740

The inverters are missing from the Fisker diagram. They sit just behind the rear passenger seats. Also, the only disadvantage with the Tesla setup is the relatively high floor in the cabin due to the flat battery pack.

 

[AnOutsider]

View attachment 6727


View attachment 6740

Their engine and large motors aside -- any particular reason they didn't go for a flat pack? Would have opened up some room in the cabin.

 

[smoothoperator]

Their engine and large motors aside -- any particular reason they didn't go for a flat pack? Would have opened up some room in the cabin.

Easier to find a modular pack from a third party in the Karma's configuration, rather than designing a proprietary flat pack. The Volt has a similar battery pack configuration.

 

[doug]

Their engine and large motors aside -- any particular reason they didn't go for a flat pack? Would have opened up some room in the cabin.

They are at the mercy of the A123 packaging for their prismatic cells.

Battery Pictures

 

[vfx]

The Tesla chargers are not in the picture. They sit under the rear seats. I guess those are not needed to make the car move any more than a gasoline pump does. Does the Fisker pic have chargers in it?

 

[doug]

The Tesla chargers are not in the picture. They sit under the rear seats. I guess those are not needed to make the car move any more than a gasoline pump does. Does the Fisker pic have chargers in it?

The Karma's 3.3 kW charger sits kinda under the left side of the rear bumper. Looks a bit kludgy.

Upgrade 3.3kwh charger to 6.6kwh or dual inline 3.3's


Here's a pic of the 10 kW charger in one of the Model S Alphas that was on display at the Menlo Park store:

10 kW charger | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

inside rear hatch | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
This charger sits under where the right rear seat would be.

 

[vfx]

Great set of historic pictures Doug. Thanks for sharing.

 

[AnOutsider]

I just can't bring myself to respect the engineering on the Karma. Those pics just further the impression I have of the car being cobbled together.

 

[Right_Said_Fred]

The Karma's tunnel just seems such a head scratcher when compared like this.

I want the world to see this Tesla picture. Too bad the new S brochure does not show it this way.

Fisker went for the tunnel because for Henrik Fisker design was leading in the Karma. A Model S setup under the floor would have made the Karma roofline too high in his view. For the same reason the exhausts of the range extender do not go all the way back under the floor but exit near the front doors. Henrik wanted to design a car without compromise, and has succeeded at that, creating a fantastic looking car. But it also has some drawbacks: more noise from the exhausts as they are close to the driver, two seats in the back because the battery tunnel occupies the space for a third seat, small trunk, big turning circle.

 

[doug]

... the only disadvantage with the Tesla setup is the relatively high floor in the cabin due to the flat battery pack.

Getting in and out of the Beta Model S, I don't find the floor to be noticeably taller than that of your typical sedan.