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Koch brothers set to make new assault on EVs

Discussion in 'News' started by Bimbels, Feb 19, 2016.

  1. Bimbels

    Bimbels GoldMember

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  2. Kalud

    Kalud Member

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    #2 Kalud, Feb 19, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 13, 2016
    For some reason promoting petroleum-based transportation reminds me the awesome Nissan "Gas Powered Everything commercial"

    (awesome except for the Chevy Volt cheap shot)

     
  3. Electric700

    Electric700 Member

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    Awesome commercial.

    I posted this in another thread:

    I think we need to continue promoting EVs, and defend them when necessary. This is one of those times, so here are some core benefits:

    1. EVs use locally-produced electricity.

    2. Charging costs can be zero when local solar/wind energy is used. If grid power is used, the cost is generally close to 70% less than that of gasoline.

    3. EVs emit nothing, and are end-to-end zero emissions vehicles when the electricity used to charge them comes from clean energy sources such as solar, wind or hydroelectric systems.

    4. EVs are virtually silent.

    5. EVs are better and safer than competing alternatives such as fuel cell vehicles (FCVs) since EVs eliminate the inefficiencies of first generating the electricity required to produce hydrogen, then transporting the hydrogen, storing it, pumping hydrogen to the FCV, and finally converting the hydrogen to generate electricity to power the FCV's electric motor. Hydrogen is also colorless, odorless and has an invisible flame, so it can be extremely hazardous.

    6. Since locally-sourced energy is used to charge EVs, money is not sent to extreme governments or organizations that rely on profits from fossil fuels.

    7. Low maintenance costs are a strong point of EVs, since there is no complicated engine, transmission, air filters, spark plugs or injections systems to maintain.

    8. EVs can be charged at home, eliminating the time and cost of trips to gas stations. There are even wireless charging options that make charging an EV effortless.

    9. Some EVs such as the Tesla Model S and X have extra storage space in the front, since there is no engine.
     
  4. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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  5. Kalud

    Kalud Member

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  6. igotzzoom

    igotzzoom Member

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    Not surprised. The Kochs have deeply entrenched interests in petroleum and ethanol. Of course they're going to vigorously defend the status quo. I am a conservative, but not a hard core "party-line" Kool-Aid drinker. I strongly believe electrification of the transportation sector is in the strategic national interest of the U.S. Are EVs and the current electrical grid and infrastructure perfect? No. However, I believe we're in the era of rapid innovation and development, and I think many of today's issues will be tackled in due time.
     
  7. Ktowntslafan

    Ktowntslafan Member

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    #7 Ktowntslafan, Feb 20, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2016
    Indeed! Most likely unrelated, but Tesla specifically was just dealt a blow in Ontario. I don't think it's unreasonable to at least consider a connection given this new information. Hope I'm wrong-may need some protection if I'm right ;) hehe...(uncomfortable chuckle). Elon-you got my back, right?

    Ontario EV incentives upped to $14K... and decreased to $3k for Tesla - Page 22
     
  8. davecolene0606

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    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, and then you win.”

    Ghandi
     
  9. Ktowntslafan

    Ktowntslafan Member

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    #9 Ktowntslafan, Feb 20, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2016
    Well said! My Twitter homepage btw:

    Ktowntslafan on Twitter:

    image.jpeg
     
  10. Ryan H

    Ryan H Member

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    Please help me understand this. What federal subsidies does Tesla get? I'm trying to do some research, but the only thing I'm coming up with is the $7500 tax credit.

    If that's the only subsidy Tesla is getting from the federal government, it doesn't seem like it's worth putting up the fight because we all know that the subsidy will be phased out after 200k cars.

    The unfortunate thing that is also happening is people looking to buy the Model 3 are realizing that they may not be eligible for the full $7500 (myself included). Personally, if that's the only subsidy Tesla is getting from the federal government, then I look forward to the day that Tesla operates without that subsidy. It will be amazing to watch what Tesla can do, and all the haters will be left powerless and speechless (as far as subsidies are concerned).
     
  11. 3s-a-charm

    3s-a-charm Active Member

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    That sucks... but Alberta hasn't ever had EV subsidies (Federal, Provincial or otherwise). Price on the sticker is the price you pay.
     
  12. Ktowntslafan

    Ktowntslafan Member

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    #12 Ktowntslafan, Feb 20, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2016
    That really sucks!

    Ontario, Quebec and BC have had wonderfully progressive EV policy. I'm not surprised Alberta does not (Oil sands and all...). The fact is, if we want to save the planet, all governements need to a) put a price on carbon and b) incent sustainable technologies.

    So, while I appreciate your argument, I believe it is off point. We should be pushing all levels of government for increased support for EV's. And when I say EV, I mean Tesla, because:

    Have Tesla and Apple disrupted the auto industry past the point of no return? - Quartz

    and

    The Fuse | Why Car Dealerships Struggle With Selling Electric Vehicles

    Fact is: Koch et al. are trying to kill the electric car AGAIN! So let's stand united in opposition to their efforts.
     
  13. S'toon

    S'toon Knows where his towel is

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    That's not a Tesla subsidy. That's a consumer tax rebate. The money goes to the purchaser, not to Tesla.

    Just for a lark, look up what the other auto manufacturers get in subsidies.
     
  14. Ryan H

    Ryan H Member

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    I'm trying to understand what subsidies the Koch brothers are going after.
     
  15. Ktowntslafan

    Ktowntslafan Member

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    It's not this one:

    image.jpeg

    Most likely this one:

    New york times-ev incentives
     
  16. Ulmo

    Ulmo Active Member

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    Ethanol? So, they can change (even though Ethanol is a step in the wrong direction).
     
  17. flankspeed8

    flankspeed8 Member

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    You could make the loose argument that the CARB system and the ZEV credits that they are able to sell to other auto manufactures is a form of subsidy, although not directly out of the Treasury. On the other hand, if the legacy manufactures don't want to pay Tesla, the answer is to comply with the regs on their own. The problem is in the language that is used...what is the difference between a tax subsidy and a tax break?

    Oil companies should have the same right to use depreciation and r&d credits just like any other industry. Aside from the indirect use of defense dollars to patrol volatile parts of the world, what kind of direct cash do oil companies get from the government?
     
  18. Ktowntslafan

    Ktowntslafan Member

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    #18 Ktowntslafan, Feb 20, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2016
    LOL! So many externalities not accounted for...#climatechange #airpollution #healthcare #insurance etc...


    image.jpeg

    You have to factor this stuff in:


    Fossil fuels subsidised by $10m a minute, says IMF | Environment | The Guardian
     
  19. flankspeed8

    flankspeed8 Member

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    lol....not moved by memes. I asked about direct CASH subsidies. I prefer a consistent application of the word "subsidy" and not that every evil attributed to oil be claimed as an unfair "subsidy"
     
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  20. Ktowntslafan

    Ktowntslafan Member

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    I don't really see the point of this exercise.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Glad you brought this up-not included in my earlier meme.
     

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