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LA drivers - Autopilot on Laurel Canyon

Beachybumm

Member
Jun 27, 2020
185
105
Los Angeles
Actually no, no one ever said that it was not a sensor problem. Because you don't know. Because you can't know unless we know if other cars have behaved the same way on the same road, which was the question that the OP asked and no one has yet answered. Yes we know that the manual says it should be used on highways. We also know that Tesla recently added stoplight and stop sign functionality in beta) (haven't seen too many stop signs in the middle of the highway) and no longer disables autopilot on local roads. We also know that autopilot typically works quite well on most of these roads and this has been well demonstrated. So let's stop pretending that we would expect the car to drive off the side of a cliff simply because the instruction manual says it should be used on highways. Yes, you have to be very careful, and yes you have to be selective on which roads you use it. To be honest, laurel canyon may not be a road that I would be comfortable using it on at this point. But back to the original post, the question was whether or not others have used it on that road and experienced similar behavior so he/she can determine if there is an issue with the car. So if you have used it on that road and experienced similar behavior, then say so. If no one has used it on that road, then mention another road where it worked well and suggest that they test their sensors there to see if the car is working properly. Simply telling someone to read the manual or that your interpretation of "minimal intervention" is superior to theirs is useful to no one.

Thank you. You expressed my point perfectly. The car has stoplight recognition, greenlight chimes and autosteer on main roads. All I wanted to know was if others who are taking this main LA road are having the same experience. I should also note that unless the freeway is fairly straight, I strongly distrust Autopilot. It veers way too far left in the lane, often coming inches from neighboring cars - even though there's plenty of room on the right side of the lane, it ignores that. I absolutely hate being in the far left lane when there's a barrier in the median. The car comes dangerously close to it, and on numerous occasions I've had to make a split second decision to pull away because the car was accelerating toward the barrier. I have an HOA sticker, but being in the HOA lane on Autopilot is a fun way to feel close to suicide. The freeway driving is not in beta - it should understand that hugging one side of the lane is not ideal, particularly when there are objects right next to the lane it's hugging.
 

Beachybumm

Member
Jun 27, 2020
185
105
Los Angeles
OP, funny you should mention this area, I used to live in L.A., and am very familiar with Laurel Canyon Blvd. I lived on it just a bit north of Burbank Blvd. 5716 Apt 5. Back in 13-14. I've taken Laurel Canyon south, over the hill, and down into the Hollywood / West Hollywood area, and I think yes, those turns going over the hill are way too tight for Base AP.

There's one off ramp here that I go on often, and it is a very tight 180 degree turn. Base AP gets about 1/3 of the way through it and freaks out. And that is at 25 mph or less.

I've been on Coldwater going over the hill, and it is also too curvy for AP, at least our current version of AP.

Gonna have to steer the car yourself, like people have done for 100+ years. I know, it's a pain..... :)

How does your AP handle Mulholland going west from Laurel Canyon or Coldwater? It has some tricky intersections.

Just like Tesla Time, don't forget to apply the Tesla factor to the idea of "Feature Complete". In Tesla talk, that means that the car can do each of the things the full AP will do, but in a very shaky, incomplete, and unreliable fashion, with a very low chance of success, and certainly nowhere near good enough to be let loose on the roadways.

You mentioned you lived in LA, but not anymore. Does that mean you haven't used the most recent update? You are correct. Coldwater has the same issues. I haven't tried Mulholland yet.

But honestly, for as well marked as the LA freeways are, my car regularly goes over the line or gets too close to neighboring objects on the freeway. It's never totally clear if that car is planning on following a curve or smashing into the barrier in the middle of the road. I know we're supposed to pay attention with our hands on the wheel - and I do - but when you're going 75mph and the car isn't turning last minute, there's a pretty high chance of an accident.

I actually did open a ticket about a month ago and was told some of my censors weren't working. The tech fixed it, but I haven't seen any difference in AP capability. I'm wondering if re calibrating will do something.
 

Beachybumm

Member
Jun 27, 2020
185
105
Los Angeles
He asked why it wasn't working well on a road the manual specifically says it's not intended to work on.

That's not a sensor problem that's user error.

So I directed him to the manual so he could learn where the system is intended to be used.

If he found operational problems when using it places it's actually intended to be, that'd be another discussion.


I mean he's welcome to open a service ticket with Tesla anyway, but I'd expect them to provide the same answer I am- if it only has trouble on roads it's not intended to be used, that's not a problem with the car, it's a problem with the driver.

It has troubles on freeways, as well. It hugs the left side of the lane, regularly coming inches from neighboring vehicles. If there is even the slightest curve in the freeway and there's a neighboring car, I have to take control or it is way too close. Forget using the HOV lane, the car gets super close to the barrier and leaves me having to make split second decisions when it fails to follow a slight curve and instead decides ramming into a barrier would be a better idea.

So to answer your question, even on an approved road, the car still feels dangerous to me. The problem is - and the point of my post - I have nobody to compare to. Thus, why I was asking about Laurel Canyon.
 
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Michelle_eriw

Member
Jun 9, 2020
545
317
USA
So the car will be able to do full self driving in December? It just seems so far off from being able to do that based on its current behavior. I have to constant take over. And it never seems to learn, even when I file a bug report or speak to my local Tesla tech.
He didn't say that, but he did say he has an alpha version of it on his model S, and it's 99% on his commute.
 
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Michelle_eriw

Member
Jun 9, 2020
545
317
USA
"Yeah, feature-complete, I mean, it's the car able to drive from one's house to work, most likely without interventions."

So if I work on the other side of Laurel Canyon, but Autopilot tries to go into oncoming traffic regularly, then "Feature complete" (able to drive to work without intervention) isn't accurate. But you act like I'm crazy for asking if it can go over Laurel Canyon when Musk has clearly stated it should be able to go from home to work without interference about three months from now.
I used to work in software development, in quality assurance. "Feature complete" means all the features have been coded, but not necessarily bug free. Essentially, it means it's out of alpha phase, and into beta. It does not mean that all the known bugs have been squashed.
 
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Michelle_eriw

Member
Jun 9, 2020
545
317
USA
He literally says in his quote that a driver will be able to drive from home to work with minimal intervention. I must be so stupid for thinking he meant that one could drive from home to work on one of the most-used routes for doing exactly that. Silly me.

mistook that to mean I would be able to drive down a major roadway in Los Angeles that takes millions of people from home to work.
That does not mean "no intervention". And he wasn't talking about now; he was talking about after the rewrite is released.
 

Knightshade

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2017
12,325
17,368
NC
It has troubles on freeways, as well. It hugs the left side of the lane, regularly coming inches from neighboring vehicles. If there is even the slightest curve in the freeway and there's a neighboring car, I have to take control or it is way too close.

Weird because previously your only mention of use on a freeway was that it handled curves just fine even at higher speeds...pointing out you didn't understand why it has trouble doing a non-supported road at 20 compared to having no curve issues at 80 on supported roads... (almost like the type of road, not the speed, was the problem or something....)


I expect it to be able to do curves at 20 mph when it can do them at 80mph on a freeway.

But by all means if you think the car is not operating properly or safely on a supported road, open a service ticket with Tesla and let them examine the cars logs and behavior.

You recently mentioned you DID open one previously and they allegedly did some work but it didn't actually change anything, which makes me wonder why you didn't go back to them since the issue you reported, that was apparently serious enough for them to do work, wasn't resolved?
 
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jjrandorin

Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums
Nov 28, 2018
9,557
10,760
Riverside Co. CA
@Beachybumm; Give up, Arguing with the Kool-Aid drinkers is like wrestling with a pig.

As if me saying the OP has the definition of "feature complete" wrong (which was 100% correct, he has the definition of that term wrong) is "drinking the Koolaid". While there are tesla fanboys / fangirls, there are not as many as people like to throw around. Stating factual information (which is what has been done in this thread by people) is not "drinking the koolaid".

Facts:

1. "Feature complete does not mean "completely 100% working"/
2. Autopilot is not currently stated to handle the type of road the OP is asking about, and there is no promise anywhere that it will do so "in the next three months"

Unknowns:

1. Whether OPs autopilot experience on that road is similar to others on that exact same road
2. Whether there is an issue with OPs car, since OP also mentions that autopilot on freeways is not performing properly... although people tend to be uncomfortable with autopilot as they dont realize THEY dont drive in the center of a road, so autopilot drives closer to the drivers side lines than they are used to.

none of that is "drinking the Koolaid". That would be "Elon can do no wrong, there is nothing wrong with autopilot, etc". Saying "it was not designed to work there, and no, its not promised to be completely working anytime soon" doesnt come anywhere near fanboyism / fangirlism.
 
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LACALawyer

Banned
Nov 22, 2019
293
321
California
Well, he's teasing a rideshare service that was supposed to start by end of year. How would that service work if the car can't drive down Laurel Canyon, which should be pretty simple given that it's a very slow speed limit and the car clearly shows the ability to navigate turns on the freeway at 80mph.

I'm sure his vision of minimal intervention doesn't mean having to constantly take the car off Autopilot or else risk being hit head on. That's the current state of driving on Laurel Canyon.
There are NO 90 degree turns on a HIGHWAY.

HIGHWAY curves are INTENTIONALLY smoother than twists and turns on the regular road BECAUSE the speeds are higher.

I've driven through Laurel Canyon many, many times. I've seen HUMANS miss some of those corners.
 

jdr93

Supporting Member
Jun 5, 2017
135
67
wooded vermont
looks like a well traveled, well marked road any normal tesla should be able to`navigate on its own. maybe not today but in the next few weeks
good video was well edited with pretty good music. enjoyed the notes.
 

jjrandorin

Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums
Nov 28, 2018
9,557
10,760
Riverside Co. CA
looks like a well traveled, well marked road any normal tesla should be able to`navigate on its own. maybe not today but in the next few weeks
good video was well edited with pretty good music. enjoyed the notes.

This is a perfect example of how two different people can look at the same thing and come away with wildly different opinions. Starting from about 2:50 (the actual assent up the canyon road), I see a road that has too many sharp turns for autopilot now, or anywhere in the near (read several months ) future at the very least. Cars too close on the side of the road, too many sharp turns, etc.

I didnt make the video, I just tound it online. I havent driven that road in quite some time as I dont go out to LA that much anymore, but I have driven it before in the past.
 

Beachybumm

Member
Jun 27, 2020
185
105
Los Angeles
Weird because previously your only mention of use on a freeway was that it handled curves just fine even at higher speeds...pointing out you didn't understand why it has trouble doing a non-supported road at 20 compared to having no curve issues at 80 on supported roads... (almost like the type of road, not the speed, was the problem or something....)




But by all means if you think the car is not operating properly or safely on a supported road, open a service ticket with Tesla and let them examine the cars logs and behavior.

You recently mentioned you DID open one previously and they allegedly did some work but it didn't actually change anything, which makes me wonder why you didn't go back to them since the issue you reported, that was apparently serious enough for them to do work, wasn't resolved?

I didn't go back to them because Tesla customer service is atrocious. Can't get anyone on the phone at any of the LA service centers. Just rings when you call.

I scheduled on the app twice and they canceled on me less than 24 hrs beforehand because they "don't have the part." Made no sense since they had diagnosed anything yet.
 

jdr93

Supporting Member
Jun 5, 2017
135
67
wooded vermont
This is a perfect example of how two different people can look at the same thing and come away with wildly different opinions. Starting from about 2:50 (the actual assent up the canyon road), I see a road that has too many sharp turns for autopilot now, or anywhere in the near (read several months ) future at the very least. Cars too close on the side of the road, too many sharp turns, etc.

I didnt make the video, I just tound it online. I havent driven that road in quite some time as I dont go out to LA that much anymore, but I have driven it before in the past.
check out some of the latest youtube postings from 'black tesla' driving their model s in west coast traffic. some excellent comments there. and also search out some of the very latest from youtubers in the uk. one has to be very impressed with how well the cars negotiate the narrow streets crowded with cars parked tight to the traveled road. lots of work being done on roundabouts too.
 

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