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Lack of promised FSD when sold as having from car dealer.

GRiLLA

Member
Jul 5, 2020
689
662
UK
While clearly the dealer either willingly or accidentally misled the original poster, we don't know whether there was really any loss from this. If the dealer had said 'no, but you can add it from Tesla for a fee' would the car not be bought? was the car at a more premium price as it had this feature? It sounds like it wasn't being advertised publicly as having FSD as the dealer had to be emailed to ask.

Was this 'a costly mistake' or simply you thought you were getting a bargain.

Definitely all sounds like a mess, you ought to be getting what you thought you were buying. Tesla do make it easy for independent garages to be confused showing things like "Full Self Driving Computer" in all cars, while"Full Self Driving Capability" is the important phrase. It's hard to see how customers or dealers could really know what they are getting. It really ought to call the computer "AutoPilot v3 Computer" to reduce opportunities for confusion.
 

Jason71

Active Member
May 8, 2019
2,847
2,724
Shropshire
While clearly the dealer either willingly or accidentally misled the original poster, we don't know whether there was really any loss from this. If the dealer had said 'no, but you can add it from Tesla for a fee' would the car not be bought? was the car at a more premium price as it had this feature? It sounds like it wasn't being advertised publicly as having FSD as the dealer had to be emailed to ask.

Was this 'a costly mistake' or simply you thought you were getting a bargain.

Definitely all sounds like a mess, you ought to be getting what you thought you were buying. Tesla do make it easy for independent garages to be confused showing things like "Full Self Driving Computer" in all cars, while"Full Self Driving Capability" is the important phrase. It's hard to see how customers or dealers could really know what they are getting. It really ought to call the computer "AutoPilot v3 Computer" to reduce opportunities for confusion.
FSD does not really seem add much to the price second hand at all in the UK as far as I can judge by autotrader so hard to tell based on price I imagine. I am sure it increases desirability a bit or even a lot for some people. but not in a way cost savvy second hand buyers seem prepared to pay for.
 

GRiLLA

Member
Jul 5, 2020
689
662
UK
FSD does not really seem add much to the price second hand at all in the UK as far as I can judge by autotrader so hard to tell based on price I imagine. I am sure it increases desirability a bit or even a lot for some people. but not in a way cost savvy second hand buyers seem prepared to pay for.
Yup, same as most options people add to any cars, negligible value on resale.

If that's the case, then other than being disappointed I wonder what the OP feels should have been done by the dealer and Ombudsman to resolve this issue.
 

D.E.

Uncorked
Oct 12, 2016
761
983
Ann Arbor, MI
The “autopilot” is worthwhile, it keeps the car centered in the lane and has the traffic aware cruise control. The FSD adds the ability to park the car unattended, unpark the car and bring it to you, and to change lanes or recommend changing lanes while navigating. I don’t trust the car to park itself, one of the two times I tried to unpark the car and come and get me unattended, it turned the wrong way and headed away from me. I don’t trust that either. And the lane changes, the car wants to change lanes far more often than I like to change lanes so I don’t let it do it automatically and I ignore the recommendations more often than I use them. So the “autopilot” gets me the features I want and the actual FSD adds nothing thus far. It’s been 4 years. The promise of me crawling into the back seat and snoozing while the car takes me home is just as far off now as it was 4 years ago. I added the FSD during one of the ”sales”, I paid $2k for it and that includes a computer upgrade to the much faster one. I haven’t made that upgrade yet. Anyway, the incremental addition of the FSD adds nothing I use and I think my car will go to the crusher before FSD becomes the actual full self drive. I’m old, 70 this year, so I’d hoped the car would increase it’s self drive utility as my abilities decline. We’ve ordered a Kia Telluride in top trim, it will have the lane keeping ability and the traffic aware cruise control that makes highway driving in the Tesla so much more relaxing. So the other manufacturers are catching up, they’re even with Tesla as far as what I actually use. I bought my car and got free supercharging, I’m grandfathered in with the music, and my car isn’t driven a lot so I have only about 15K on it. I’d love to have the latest fastest S but I’d give up all the perks I have with this one. Tesla won’t transfer my upgrades and purchases to a new one despite the $130K cost of the plaid performance monster. If a new one simply took on the features and perks of my current one, I might even consider it, I’m still juvenile enough to want the fastest car there is. That’s a deep lingering scar left over from the 70’s when all my friends all had the fast Cameros, Corvettes, and the 454 Chevrolets. I had a $250 Rambler Rebel, a car that had a suspension that fatigued and broke aiming a front wheel in severe and totally inappropriate directions. That car was as dangerous as it was cheap. So I have a 4 year old S that still looks new, and Tesla’s costly upgrades will keep me in the one I have for a very long time. Mine is a 75D uncorked to a 4.1 second 0-60 time, so it isn’t at all slow. I ask myself when I’d ever use the additional acceleration, and honestly I wouldn’t beyond just every now and again to feel that thrilling push. I suppose mine’s worth $40K or so now, so the upgrade to the plaid would be beyond expensive, and I don’t think the new one will be any better at carting me home once I reach the point I drool and should no longer drive. So the free supercharging is something I seldom use but do enjoy it immensely when I do, the free music is great, the FSD is virtually useless for me but would needlessly add 10K to the cost of any new S if I was to add it. I wouldn’t. By the time it becomes useful, all the other cars will have it and the competition will mean it won’t be any longer a $10K addition.

I personally think the FSD will need LIDAR mapping before it becomes truly viable, and Elon’s been dug in as far as not even considering adding it. I understand they’re testing it, though, so maybe his heels aren’t as dug in as far as I’d thought.

OK, I’ve rambled, put it down to age. I’d have rambled in my younger years, perhaps not as much.

I don’t think Tesla planned it that way but the perks of my current car have pretty much mentally locked me into not ever upgrading. It seems it might be worthwhile for Tesla to offer a “Perks Graft” to those of us that bought Teslas when Teslas were rare, that “perks graft” moving absolutely everything the legacy owner has to a brand new car. On the other hand, they’ve got absolutely no problems with removing all those nice perks when the car moves through Tesla to a new owner. I’m sure that there aren’t that many of us, when compared to the number of owners of new Teslas. I think we are the more vocal, and likely the most fiercely brand loyal of all the Tesla owners. My car is absolutely the best there is. Four years of ownership has only deepened my conviction.
 
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VanillaAir_UK

Former Moderator
Jun 17, 2019
7,979
5,481
Surrey, UK
Moderator comment - Can we please keep the thread on topic - at present, it seems to boil down to.

The replies seem to have gone off on a tangent here… at end of the day the dealer you used sold you a car that they advised had FSD… when you received the car it did not have FSD - the issue is between you and the dealer - it has nothing to do with Tesla.

@Dr_Funk could you share the advert? The discussion becomes a bit pointless otherwise.

Only by seeing the description can it then be judged whether a mis-representation or a misunderstanding has taken place. Unfortunately Tesla makes it very easy for confusion to arise both by their description and practices.
 

kriscii

Member
Jan 19, 2021
72
32
Bucks
I had a much smaller issue many years ago where the cars on the lot had the radio removed for security..... oh the good old days of easily removable radios. I asked did it have the original radio and they said yes. I purchased the car but when I got the car rather than it having the nice matching black radio it had a cheap silver £20 halfords job. They said they would sort it out but contacted me the next day saying that that was the radio it came with.

I took some advice and was told that the car was not as described so was entitled to the proper radio. They said the advert should identify any difference from the standard specification. So Vauxhall Cavalier with Halfords radio needed to be said or it was misrepresentation. This is where it gets hard as I was told write to them and give them 2 weeks to rectify or I would buy the radio and take them to small claims court for the price. For a £150-200 radio that isn't as big a deal as £6800 for FSD. Within 5 days the correct radio was fitted. The principle is the same if you go to the Tesla website FSD is clearly explained and priced so any claims of not understanding the meaning is their oversight. Ignorance of the features or Tesla's practice is their mistake and if you have proof they described it as having FSD you are entitled to the cost of rectifying.
 

Wol747

Member
Aug 26, 2017
977
445
Tea Gardens
Whether or not FSD is legal is irrelevant. It's not ILLegal. If offered as part of a sale it should be on the car and validated. Small claims court.
 

Dr_Funk

New Member
Oct 15, 2020
4
0
Walsall
Thanks everyone for your replies. The original advert did not mention FSD, I specifically emailed the trader and asked as part of a checklist I had prior to purchasing the car,if it came with FSD to which the reply via email was yes. This email thread was provided to the motor ombudsman.

I had 2 M3s shortlisted with what appeared to be similar specs and prices. But chose to purchase with this trader as they were willing to reduce their price to get me to buy the car with them. At the time I purchased my M3 there was a large difference between LR M3 with and without FSD and so I thought the price agreed was a good deal.
 

CMc1

supercharge.info editor
Aug 2, 2019
1,524
1,396
North, UK
Thanks everyone for your replies. The original advert did not mention FSD, I specifically emailed the trader and asked as part of a checklist I had prior to purchasing the car,if it came with FSD to which the reply via email was yes. This email thread was provided to the motor ombudsman.

I had 2 M3s shortlisted with what appeared to be similar specs and prices. But chose to purchase with this trader as they were willing to reduce their price to get me to buy the car with them. At the time I purchased my M3 there was a large difference between LR M3 with and without FSD and so I thought the price agreed was a good deal.
I’d definitely take it up with Small claims court if you have the evidence to support. All done online.
 

Cantonalegod

Member
May 25, 2019
9
3
North Devon
I’d definitely take it up with Small claims court if you have the evidence to support. All done online.
All done online may be pushing it a bit, certainly it can be started online, and progressed so far.

It may result in a court appearance, (once the backlog is cleared), if the other party decide to defend, and can provide their own evidence.
 
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