Jason71
Well-Known Member
OK fair enough. that's news to me. Not sure how they would even know though tbh?
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Lack of promised FSD when sold as having from car dealer.
- Thread starter Dr_Funk
- Start date
MrBadger
Badger out
Totally agree it should not be happening - it effectively diminishes the worth of the vehicle when selling on. I'll keep an eye out for the mention - I stumbled across it and its quite possible is a US thing which is why my search in GB Tesla account didn't show up anything.
There's nothing untoward going on here when Tesla remove FSD other than Tesla being slow to actually update the car with changes in spec.
They own the car at the point they do it, if they want to decrease the value of the car, or avoid having to pay to have the hardware upgraded to the FSD spec or don't mind stripping a feature from the car because the trade value is only a few grand lower without and they stand a chance of selling the package again to the next owner for more, then why not? They own the car. There's no secret clause here. Where the problem occurs if when Tesla don't quickly update the actual car, so the car is sold at auction with paper work saying no FSD, the dealer or buyer thinks they've got lucky because they see it in the car only for it to be removed later. Thats the issue. The dealers should know what they've bought from the paperwork and ow it was described. It's happened a few times in the US but I've never seen anyone have this problem in the UK. What does happen is dealers don;t know what they're selling.
They own the car at the point they do it, if they want to decrease the value of the car, or avoid having to pay to have the hardware upgraded to the FSD spec or don't mind stripping a feature from the car because the trade value is only a few grand lower without and they stand a chance of selling the package again to the next owner for more, then why not? They own the car. There's no secret clause here. Where the problem occurs if when Tesla don't quickly update the actual car, so the car is sold at auction with paper work saying no FSD, the dealer or buyer thinks they've got lucky because they see it in the car only for it to be removed later. Thats the issue. The dealers should know what they've bought from the paperwork and ow it was described. It's happened a few times in the US but I've never seen anyone have this problem in the UK. What does happen is dealers don;t know what they're selling.
Just in case you need to retrieve the original advert, you might find it with this website: Internet Archive: Wayback Machine
You can define the date range and then look for it. Hope you have luck.
BTW, my experience with the Ombudsman services has been poor. It seems that they only protect the actual business not your interest.
You can define the date range and then look for it. Hope you have luck.
BTW, my experience with the Ombudsman services has been poor. It seems that they only protect the actual business not your interest.
Bought my Model 3 used from a non-Tesla auto dealership. The advertisement that got mine in the door for a test drive showed the Software screen on the display. Had the Vehicle VIN, Mileage, and then FULL SELF DRIVE, Acceleration Boost and Premium Connectivity. Bought the car on a Thursday and they needed to replace a tire hat had a bulge, so I didn’t take delivery of the car until the following Monday. Since the paperwork for the deal was done Thursday, I had a temporary registration and went on Tesla website to claim ownership of the Tesla and have the account and car in my name so I could now use my phone as a key and use Superchargers. When I got the car Monday and drove it home, I had my wife and kid come into car so I could show them how fun it was. To my shock, the FSD was GONE. All I saw was “Autopilot” on the Software Screen. I asked Tesla what happened and said the dealership messed something up somewhere acquiring the car at auction and they couldn’t help me, and that I need to resolve with the dealership. The dealership blames Tesla and I am now 7 weeks of ownership with a missing/removed $10,000 upgrade. I told the dealership I am certainly entitled to compensation. I am awaiting their reply before I get a lawyer, which will cost me $ I should never have had to pay in the first place.
Ask the dealer for the auction listing of the car and see how it was described by Tesla. We'll then find out it dealers are just being idiots given how well known this situation is (so they should certainly know) or whether its Tesla.
I wouldn't be surprised if dealers are letting people assume things based on pictures and not being explicit in correctly advertising features in the description. If the car had different wheels in the picture you'd expect them to clarify they're not the wheels you'd be getting, its not exactly the same, but its not far off..
Jason71
Well-Known Member
I am guessing the law in these instances is probably very different in the UK and the US. I think we generally might have stronger consumer protection in the UK but either way it will be different for the OPs' case and this one though both are clearly egregious and hopefully can be resolved.
Your beef is with the dealership. They represented the car to you and you bought it from them. They owned the car, they advertised it, they represented the included upgrades, they priced it, and they took the profit. The dealership needs to square things with you. The dealership needs to get the FSD restored, they need to buy the upgrade for the car, they need to adequately compensate you for the lost value, or they need to take the car back and refund the purchase price. All that assumes the status change occurred before you owned the car. They’ll claim they didn’t know the FSD was removed and you’ll claim they’re selling a used car and it is their job to know the status of that car. If you need an attorney to represent your in your claim against the dealership, you should claim the cost of the attorney as well.
Now if Tesla disabled the feature after you owned the car, then you have a beef with Tesla. If Tesla changed the status of the car, they should have done it while they owned the car. Once they no longer own the car, they shouldn’t be able to reach out and take things away.
I think of it like wheels. If the car had super premium wheels, and if Tesla owns the car, they can take off those wheels and put cheaper wheels on it before they sell it. Once they sell it with the premium wheels, they cannot grab the premium wheels off the car and substitute the cheaper ones. It isn’t their car, they cannot touch it. If you own the car and the FSD is part of the car, they should not be able to reach out and remove the software from your car. So if they make changes to the car, it has to be while they own it.
I’m not an attorney but that’s the way it looks to me. Good luck.
Not to my knowledge (in the UK at least). If/when I sell my car Tesla will have a problem with me if they try to remove the full self driving that I paid for. Of course if I sell it to Tesla as a trade-in or otherwise they are free to do as they wish.
ACarneiro
Active Member
I’m really uncomfortable with this idea that they can just unilaterally downgrade the car at their discretion when it changes hands.
Yet another reason to steer clear!
Yet another reason to steer clear!
They can stop people SuperCharging if they like, heard of that before in the US. They probably can stop the car turning on or recognizing your key if they want to.
They are not entitled to do anything to FSD or EAP when the car changes hands, it's clearly against their contract of sale. They also don't, this is about opportunistic dealers in the US buying cars from Tesla at auction and allowing purchasers to be misled.
A better reason to steer clear is that Tesla clearly don't see selling cars with FSD justifying a different value to cars without. Same happens on PX as far as I know.
They can only downgrade if they own the car. If you sell your car to me, it comes to me lock, stock, and barrel. If you sell your car to a dealer as in trade it in, and if it winds up with Tesla briefly owning it, then Tesla can strip what they want before selling it to a dealer that then sells it to me. The problem is when the dealer gets it from Tesla and Tesla didn’t get around to removing the software Yet. The car is assumed to have what the displays show and is sold on that basis. Then Tesla finally gets around to removing the software after I’ve assumed ownership.
Tesla needs to complete all changes before their ownership ends. Their delays are the basis for these difficulties. It isn’t a unilateral downgrade, and Tesla needs to own the car to do this.
They only disable use of the superchargers if they have reason to think the car might be dangerous to recharge. They do this if the car has been totaled. If a car has a salvage title it’s an uphill battle to get Tesla to certify it as safe to supercharge. If Tesla finds someone has modified the electrical system in a way that can render it unsafe, they disable the supercharging, they do it to protect their equipment and to avoid causing injury.
Jason71
Well-Known Member
as I hear it they disable ALL rapid charging which is not the same. If they don't want someone using their supercharger network then that is up to them. but stopping you using your car with other peoples chargers seems to be over reach. Wasn't that one of the things that caused Rich rebuilds to fall out with Tesla and got his referral code ( in.c free roadster) cancelled?
Yup.
My point really was that while Tesla can use remote management to remove FSD, just like they can remotely manage all sorts of other capabilities of the car, they are not entitled to. They can remove FSD if they own the car, not if someone else does.
This is the crux but the dealers can help themselves here if they show the car description when they bought it. Given we know Tesla do this (change features), and while its pretty bad of Tesla to take so long, if the dealer has been told the spec by Tesla at auction, they should make sure any potential buyer also knows.
A good dealer will list accurately and I am pretty sure they have the information when they are at auction.
The replies seem to have gone off on a tangent here… at end of the day the dealer you used sold you a car that they advised had FSD… when you received the car it did not have FSD - the issue is between you and the dealer - it has nothing to do with Tesla.
If Tesla have disabled FSD after selling the car with that feature to the dealer then that’s between the dealer and Tesla to sort out - as others have suggested it’s more likely that Tesla have sold the car as NOT having the feature and when the dealers received the car it’s still been activated as the removal hasn’t gone through to the car… Given that it was in this scenario sold without the feature then it’s reasonable to expect that if it’s still active that it will cease functioning shortly - I’m pretty certain no one would argue with that - but again, that’s between the dealer and Tesla.
If Tesla have disabled FSD after selling the car with that feature to the dealer then that’s between the dealer and Tesla to sort out - as others have suggested it’s more likely that Tesla have sold the car as NOT having the feature and when the dealers received the car it’s still been activated as the removal hasn’t gone through to the car… Given that it was in this scenario sold without the feature then it’s reasonable to expect that if it’s still active that it will cease functioning shortly - I’m pretty certain no one would argue with that - but again, that’s between the dealer and Tesla.
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