Leaf -vs- Volt

[Dave EV]

So you would be okay if they cut the range another 5, 10, or 15 miles (in either car)? Personally, I think every mile counts (people are making a relatively big deal about 3 miles extra range for the Volt). More is always better (besides from cost).

Absolutely not. Like I said earlier - I want more EV range (not that it's cost effective or necessarily makes sense). I would love to have a 35+kWh battery pack in my EV. That would give a real-world 100+mi freeway range and would cover all my trips with room to spare except for road trips where I might travel up to 500 miles/day. For that one realistically needs at least a 150 mi freeway range vehicle with 30 minute QC stations at the right spots. For now - easier to go with a PHEV or rent a regular stinker.

As for all the range fudging, I don't think the 80% charge is a real restriction since 100% charge is always an option with no ambiguity. The Tesla also has a Standard mode that restricts the top end, but I have never seen people use the Standard mode charging as the basis to estimate max range.

I don't know - range mode's "ideal miles" are based on a constant 55 mph. It seems that if you drive on the freeway at say 65-70 mph, even charging in range mode nets you close to standard mode ideal miles in range, no? But yes - 80% on the LEAF isn't that bad a restriction once you train yourself to hit the timer override button at least an hour before departure (it takes about 90 minutes to go from 80% to 100%, but like the Roadster charge rate starts slowing down in the last 15-20 minutes of charge).

The real restriction is how comfortable you are at the lower end (different for every driver), so it'll be some sizable portion of the 21.5kWh usable.

Definitely - with the LEAF most people seem fairly comfortable driving down to the first low battery warning at which point one has about 3 kWh left or about 15 miles depending on how you're driving before you enter turtle mode. Interestingly, this seems to be a similar amount of energy left Roadster drivers feel comfortable driving down to - perhaps slightly less.

 

[daniel]

With the LEAF you have to make a conscious decision if you take any trip out of the ordinary to estimate range, decide if you should charge to 100% instead of the usual 80% or seek out charging stations along the way. [...] The average Joe just doesn't want to have to think about this ...

I agree that the average Joe does not want to think about this. But that's just habit, fostered by cheap oil. I had no difficulty thinking about my trips ahead of time when I drove the Xebra. I had to think about both range and speed. The Xebra would go 40 miles to empty, or 32 miles to a "safe" 80% DoD, and had a top speed of 35 mph. And though it's legal here to drive 35 on a 45-mph road, I refused to do that. If the Xebra was not suitable I took the Prius. And if I was going to drive the Xebra near its range limit, I drove it more gently than if I was only driving 15 or 20 miles.

With gas at $4, the average Joe is angry, but still unwilling to change his thinking. But there will come a time when gas is so expensive that he accepts he must. And pretty soon he'll realize that trip planning is worth it for the money he saves.

The average family has two cars already, and a Leaf would be an ideal fit as the 80-mile car next to a gas car for longer drives. And the average Joe doesn't drive more than 50 miles often enough that the occasional full charge would significantly affect battery life. So he'll have the battery-life advantage of 80% charging and still be able to drive 80 or 100 miles when he needs to. Gas just has to be expensive enough that he's willing to change his habits. The new habit is not difficult, and doesn't cost anything. It's just a change of habits.

Sadly, for most people, the convenience of keeping old habits is worth depleting a non-renewable and dwindling resource so that his grandkids have a significantly worse life than we now enjoy.

 

[Dave EV]

With gas at $4, the average Joe is angry, but still unwilling to change his thinking. But there will come a time when gas is so expensive that he accepts he must. And pretty soon he'll realize that trip planning is worth it for the money he saves.

Sadly, for most people, the convenience of keeping old habits is worth depleting a non-renewable and dwindling resource so that his grandkids have a significantly worse life than we now enjoy.

Very good points. Unfortunately most people would rather remain ignorant in their bubble of their air conditioned McMansion and SUVs. Ignoring the long-term financial benefits of electrification - one still can't the majority of people to acknowledge the science of AGW and would rather believe that we have unlimited oil reserves thanks to abiotic oil. 98% of the population still doesn't realize that the reason gas prices are high is because most of the cheap oil has been burned already!

Wall-E comes to mind...

 

[daniel]

High gas prices will bring change.

Wall-E was a great movie!