LNI Permit Type needed in WA state for NEMA 14-50 installation

[gowin09]

I'm trying to obtain the permit needed to self-install the NEMA 14-50 outlet for my Model S in my garage. For WA state where I live (Bothell), we need to obtain the permit from LNI (link below). However, the options to purchase the permit are not evidentially clear for an EV charger installation and I'm confused on what permit to even purchase. The permit comes with one inspection of the installation as well. Would appreciate if anyone can share from their experience or through their electrician on the permit type that is required for WA state from LNI.

The installation quotes I got are north of $900+ and hence I decided to do my own which I'm comfortable with considering my home is equipped with 200AMP breaker box and can easily support this additional 50AMP GFCI breaker that is needed for the Nema 14-50 outlet installation which can be done in less than an hour with how my home setup is currently.

Electrical Permits, Fees & Inspections

lni.wa.gov

 

[SageBrush]

I'm not from your area -- just trying to help.

From your list, I would choose 'circuit' but I didn't actually find your list. I did reach this point on the L&I website which looks promising.

You are asked to describe the work. I would write something along the lines of ' installation of a dedicated branch circuit into an existing panel for electric car (EV) charging.' Describe the conductors/cables used in terms of size and insulation**, the length from panel to device, any raceways, the OCPD ("breaker") rating, and whether a receptacle or hardwired EVSE terminates the conductors. Note whether GFI is used -- they are required if a receptacle is used. If your terminating device is outside, there are wet rules to follow.

It is a good idea to read NEC 625.14
Good luck!

** E.g., 8 AWG THHN

 

[airborne spoon]

Permits are a waste of time, are you sure you need one to do such a small menial task in your own home? most places don't require a permit for a 5 min install job and when the project is below a certain size or structure connection.

if you go to the WA page and read the rules its grey area. section (7)(i) it says one household appliance; circuit breakers.... you are installing a household appliance (the car) and will install one circuit breaker (50A) to go with it. pretty sure you as the homeowner don't need a permit to do that. But if you want to pay extra taxes for no reason go ahead. But as i said i don't know anywhere that requires a permit to install one outlet because its a waste of the cities time to do such inspections. You could also go to the county office and ask them if a permit is actually required for a homeowner to install one outlet in their house and they can tell you straight up yes/no. I'm no lawyer but id say F*&K them and just install it because there is no reason to permit such trivial work.

 

[ATPMSD]

Installing a hardwired Wall Connector is cheaper than going with the 14-50 outlet, unless you already own a mobile connector. And even than I would still install a Wall Connector and put the mobile connector in the car.

14-50 option: Outlet $50-80, GFCI breaker $150+, New Mobile Connector with a 14-50 adapter included $200, some sort of cable management system $35 = $435+

Wall connector: $400 + a $15 breaker.

 

[mvaccaro]

I'm trying to obtain the permit needed to self-install the NEMA 14-50 outlet for my Model S in my garage. For WA state where I live (Bothell), we need to obtain the permit from LNI (link below). However, the options to purchase the permit are not evidentially clear for an EV charger installation and I'm confused on what permit to even purchase. The permit comes with one inspection of the installation as well. Would appreciate if anyone can share from their experience or through their electrician on the permit type that is required for WA state from LNI.

The installation quotes I got are north of $900+ and hence I decided to do my own which I'm comfortable with considering my home is equipped with 200AMP breaker box and can easily support this additional 50AMP GFCI breaker that is needed for the Nema 14-50 outlet installation which can be done in less than an hour with how my home setup is currently.

Electrical Permits, Fees & Inspections

lni.wa.gov

Did you figured out if you need the permit ?

 

[SageBrush]

Installing a hardwired Wall Connector is cheaper than going with the 14-50 outlet, unless you already own a mobile connector. And even than I would still install a Wall Connector and put the mobile connector in the car.

14-50 option: Outlet $50-80, GFCI breaker $150+, New Mobile Connector with a 14-50 adapter included $200, some sort of cable management system $35 = $435+

Wall connector: $400 + a $15 breaker.

This is fair accounting for a DIYr. if calling an electrician .... maybe not. For reasons I don't understand, it is common to hear stories of electricians charging much more to install a TWC Vs a 14-50 receptacle.

 

[ATPMSD]

This is fair accounting for a DIYr. if calling an electrician .... maybe not. For reasons I don't understand, it is common to hear stories of electricians charging much more to install a TWC Vs a 14-50 receptacle.

It is called the Tesla tax! If an electrician tries this stunt they are trying to rip you off, so call someone else. Installing a TWC is easier then cutting a hole in the wall, installing an outlet box, and then wiring it up. In fact if they run the wires and leave a good length, installing the TWC is a fairly easy DIY project.

 

[SageBrush]

It is called the Tesla tax!

My speculation is that it is more an EVSE tax, I presume because it relatively novel. The Tesla angle is funny though, since RV owners are not exactly hurting for money.

 

[Micleee]

Installing a hardwired Wall Connector is cheaper than going with the 14-50 outlet, unless you already own a mobile connector. And even than I would still install a Wall Connector and put the mobile connector in the car.

14-50 option: Outlet $50-80, GFCI breaker $150+, New Mobile Connector with a 14-50 adapter included $200, some sort of cable management system $35 = $435+

Wall connector: $400 + a $15 breaker.

I am curious how did you get the answer that Wall Connector is cheaper compare with the NEMA outlet. I got the quote to hardwire the wall connector is 900+ dollars. Outlet just around 600+ dollars.

 

[SageBrush]

I am curious how did you get the answer that Wall Connector is cheaper compare with the NEMA outlet. I got the quote to hardwire the wall connector is 900+ dollars. Outlet just around 600+ dollars.

You may want to actually **read** what you quoted

 

[ATPMSD]

how did you get the answer that Wall Connector is cheaper compare with the NEMA outlet.

The posting was self-explanatory, but as prices have changed here is an update:

14-50 option: Bryant or Hubble outlet $80, GFCI breaker $150, Mobile Connector with a 14-50 adapter included $230, some sort of cable management system $35 = $495. All too often electricians are not using the appropriate parts (such as using a cheap Leviton $15 outlet or not installing a GFCI breaker)

Wall connector is now $425 + a standard breaker at $15 = $440

Some electricians also want to charge a premium to "install" the wall connector. It is easier to install a wall connector then it is install a power box, wire it and fit it with a 14-50 outlet.

 

[SageBrush]

Some electricians also want to charge a premium to "install" the wall connector.

Indeed.

Just musing aloud, I wonder if part of the cost difference is that those who choose the TWC presume it will run at 48 Amps, whereas those who choose the 14-50 agree to either a 32 or 40 Amp circuit. It could be the difference between a job with NM-B Vs a job running conduit.

 

[ATPMSD]

Indeed.

Just musing aloud, I wonder if part of the cost difference is that those who choose the TWC presume it will run at 48 Amps, whereas those who choose the 14-50 agree to either a 32 or 40 Amp circuit.

If you put in a 14-50 outlet you really need to set it up as a 50A circuit. In the case of the Wall Connector you can set it up on a 50A circuit, or spend a little more for a 60A circuit. The 14-50 is of course limited to a maximum charging rate of 32A while the wall connector will charge at 40A on a 50A circuit, or 48A if a 60A circuit is run.

For the Wall Connector I suggest going with the 60A circuit. Seems kind of silly after spending so much money on these cars to then try to save on the charging circuit. Of course, if the wire run is very long, the extra wire cost for 60A wire will add up.

 

[SageBrush]

14-50 is of course limited to a maximum charging rate of 32A

It is not, if paired with a 50 Amp breaker. You may be thinking of an EVSE limited to 32 Amps.

NEC allows a 40 Amp breaker, conductor rated to 40 Amps (eg. #8 AWG NMB), and a 14-50 receptacle used for a 32 Amp charging EVSE.
I'm not saying I would choose that setup, only that it is allowed.

 

[ATPMSD]

It is not, if paired with a 50 Amp breaker. You may be thinking of an EVSE limited to 32 Amps.

NEC allows a 40 Amp breaker, conductor rated to 40 Amps (eg. #8 AWG NMB), and a 14-50 receptacle used for a 32 Amp charging EVSE.
I'm not saying I would choose that setup, only that it is allowed.

For clarity
I meant to say The Tesla Mobile Connector maxes out at a charge rate of 32A, assuming it is on a 40A or better circuit.

I agree you can run a 40A circuit and use a 40A breaker with a 14-50 outlet, in which case the outlet should be labeled as a 40A outlet. This is sufficient to run the mobile connector at the full 32A charge rate.

However, while this is allowed, it is not a good idea.

 

[SageBrush]

I meant to say The Tesla Mobile Connector maxes out at a charge rate of 32A, assuming it is on a 40A or better circuit.

I agree you can run a 40A circuit and use a 40A breaker with a 14-50 outlet, in which case the outlet should be labeled as a 40A outlet. This is sufficient to run the mobile connector at the full 32A charge rate.

Right, and this is what I was wondering is happening in practice to lead electricians to quote lower prices for 14-50 installations since they can often get away with #8 AWG NMB runs, and not use conduit.

That other thread describing a fool "electrician" who ran #8 AWG NMB for a 48 Amp TWC presumed that every EV charging circuit is like a 14-50 being used with a TMC. That was his prior experience, and it does not surprise me that it would be a common setup. Wiring a TWC for 48 Amps is likely to be a considerably more labor and materials expensive choice that gets passed on to the consumer.

Nothing stops a consumer from buying a TWC and asking for a circuit to run it at 32 Amps, but I doubt either consumers or electricians spend much time on that choice.

 

[Octopath]

For clarity
I meant to say The Tesla Mobile Connector maxes out at a charge rate of 32A, assuming it is on a 40A or better circuit.

I agree you can run a 40A circuit and use a 40A breaker with a 14-50 outlet, in which case the outlet should be labeled as a 40A outlet. This is sufficient to run the mobile connector at the full 32A charge rate.

However, while this is allowed, it is not a good idea.

Note that the Corded Mobile Connector does max out at 40A if you can get hold of one, they are pretty consistently out of stock at Tesla.

 

[ATPMSD]

Note that the Corded Mobile Connector does max out at 40A if you can get hold of one, they are pretty consistently out of stock at Tesla.

True, but the hardware cost is still greater than installing a wall connector.