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Long-Term Fundamentals of Tesla Motors (TSLA)
- Thread starter Robert.Boston
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- elon is an ass investing TSLA
Good points Papafox. I'd not really thought about Tesla hiring away talent.
And of course Panasonic being involved doesn't have to mean investment. Here's a comment from one of their executives as a follow up to last week's reporting on Panasonic's position,
"In an email to BI, Panasonic spokesman Jim Reilly confirmed Tsuga's remarks.
Panasonic values the strong relationship it has with Tesla Motors and is looking at a number of ways to further strengthen that relationship, At this point, however, the company has not made a decision on any particular option"
(article didn't say who did the bolding)
PANASONIC: We Haven't Yet Committed To Elon Musk's Gigafactory - Yahoo Finance
Ahhh it hurts to read so much self bashing.
Maybe you were just unlucky to miss this boat, happens to all of us. There will be other boats.
Also, your feelings are universally shared (for different reasons), if that helps.
Causalien
Prime 8 ball Oracle
Causa's China investigation:
I was surprised to meet a Chinese backpacker who knows about Tesla. So We had a long discussion to satiate my curiosity. The take away from our discussion is this:
Everyone in China's urban centers knows about Tesla.
They know because of Tesla's pricing decision. Which give China a lot of "Face" and make them feel respected. This played more in putting Tesla on everyone's radar than did Tesla's technology.
They do not believe Tesla can build the supercharger network effectively because
BYD's previous failure at doing so, which prevents people from buying EV.
In China, people don't usually have garages and most travelling are done through pubic transport. It is only in between cities that they use car.
There is also capacity concerns. Will the chargers be able to handle the amount of people that uses it as there are a lot of people in China. Land for the super chargers are also going to cost a lot. Their thinking is this. Build the charger infrastructures first before you have customers. Just like every other project in China. So tesla's way of using car purchases to fund the super charger network. Might not work.
The car is already liked, But Tesla's fight in China is going to be about super chargers, not the car..
I was surprised to meet a Chinese backpacker who knows about Tesla. So We had a long discussion to satiate my curiosity. The take away from our discussion is this:
Everyone in China's urban centers knows about Tesla.
They know because of Tesla's pricing decision. Which give China a lot of "Face" and make them feel respected. This played more in putting Tesla on everyone's radar than did Tesla's technology.
They do not believe Tesla can build the supercharger network effectively because
BYD's previous failure at doing so, which prevents people from buying EV.
In China, people don't usually have garages and most travelling are done through pubic transport. It is only in between cities that they use car.
There is also capacity concerns. Will the chargers be able to handle the amount of people that uses it as there are a lot of people in China. Land for the super chargers are also going to cost a lot. Their thinking is this. Build the charger infrastructures first before you have customers. Just like every other project in China. So tesla's way of using car purchases to fund the super charger network. Might not work.
The car is already liked, But Tesla's fight in China is going to be about super chargers, not the car..
Thanks for the post. My other concern is if the 'Chinese elite', as many refer to them, will see the pricing (which I agree with) as making the car not 'elite' enough. Any thoughts/comments on that from other people you run into on your travels would be most appreciated. Thanks
Thanks for your helpful information.
Since I was born in China, I can add up some points based on your comments.
1: I have to say, almost 100% of the people who will buy Tesla spend most of their time in crowded downtown. People will not be bothered to drive out of a city and take advantage of SuperCharger, since I sincerely believe that the money they saved from public charging system is less than the toll fee they paid for taking highway.
2: Tesla may seek for cooperation with local gov. for charging solutions. Chinese gov. loves EV, since the air pollution is very bad at nationwide level, there is no exaggeration. They may be happy to leave a couple of parking positions for Tesla users at public parking lots, and equip the designed lots with SC. Tesla can not operate SC by itself, since the cost will be HUGE. However, they can rely on the gov., and benefit the gov. by promoting charging technology. If Tesla can make Chinese gov. happy, the perspective market would be very very bright. Many Chinese buyers, as far as I know, are frustrated about the charging solution. If SC opens in China, although in minimal amount, people will at least realize that there is a way to charge the car outside my garage, and it is FREE!!
3: No offense, I think an important reason that people like Tesla is the car is fancy. The truth in China is, BMW, Benz, Audi is everywhere. In some big cities, like Beijing, many porsche, Ferrari, etc can be seen on the road. What I mean here is people really do not care money that much when they really want to purchase a high-end car. Tesla attracts many eyeballs, because the number would be very limited in a fairly long time. This gives the owners opportunities to show off, which is the "Face" you mentioned.
4: It is really hard to say how large the percentage of those Tesla owners have their private garage. Your friend tells a fact from a general view, but we should realize that, the people who can afford a Tesla, should be much wealthier than the average.
Causalien
Prime 8 ball Oracle
I doubt I'll be able to run into the super rich. These are people who made enough in the economic zone to be able to afford traveling once a year. The super rich usually do a tour
Norse
Active Member
How can the land of the Super Chargers be expensive? They usually set them up between cities.
Causalien
Prime 8 ball Oracle
Dunno. But it is something tesla has to do to convince the middle class to let them know it'll work. My guess is that lands are expensive everywhere in the east coast of China.
RobStark
Well-Known Member
Yeah I am sure that property between Beijing and Shanghai is more expensive that between Los Angeles and San Francisco and between Paris and Berlin.
Anyways, they usually come to an agreement with hotel/motel/restaurant owners to put a supercharger on their property in exchange for bringing in wealthy customers.
China has a GDP per capita of $7k compared to $53k for the USA and over $100k for Norway.
The Chinese middle class can't afford a Model S.
The Global Upper Middle class that resides in China( about 7% of the 1.5 Billion Chinese) can afford this car and maybe the superrich Chinese may find the popularly priced Model S too pedestrian for their taste but it will be a very very long time before the average Chinese can afford a Model S.
I don't think wherewithal is the prime issue here. The points about charging infrastructure and range are pretty valid in my opinion though. The linked article sums up things nicely (I'm sure it's lurking somewhere else on TMC, but it is relevant here) demand in China is at the top of my burning question list for Q1 ER. I'm not expecting insane demand, but would be pleasantly surprised if it were there.
Also, if your figure is true. 105,000,000 is a lot of Upper Middle Class people. More than all of North America I'd wager.
Can Tesla Outsell Porsche In China? - Forbes
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Most of the American and rest of the world still couldn't understand how wealthy for the top 5% of Chinese. Thanks for the 30 years economy booming and recent 10 years housing bubble, currency appreciation. Median family wealth in Beijing/Shanghai/Hangzhou/Shenzhen etc. eastern coastal cities can easily outcome upper middle class american. Thus there is no wonder why China becomes the world's largest market for any luxury items including cars, Chinese are pouring money overseas to boost house price in Sydney, London, Vancouvor, San Francisco, Los Angeles and New York. There are many luxury things in western world but they looks just dirty cheap by top 5% Chinese.
RobStark
Well-Known Member
With just over 20% of the world's population China has a lot of everything.
And they are not WASPY old money that disdain flaunting their wealth.
More like NBA ballers, if you have it flaunt it type philosophy.
Yes, the addressable market is larger in China than North America, but not 700 Million Plus.
marvinat0rz
Member
ZEV cars how have 20.3% market share in Norway, using March sales numbers. Model S represents 50% of this, and hence has 10.3% market share. All cars are included in this statistic (gasoline, hybrid, BEV, natural gas etc).
http://bil.bt.no/bil/Solgte-48-Tesla-er-hver-dag-i-mars-64659.html
1493 Model S registered in March.
http://bil.bt.no/bil/Solgte-48-Tesla-er-hver-dag-i-mars-64659.html
1493 Model S registered in March.
Causalien
Prime 8 ball Oracle
I am using american Standard to judge who are their middle class. When I say chinese middle class, I usually mean about those that can afford Model E. China probably have more super rich than the states have upper middle class in raw numbers, but percentage wise it will always be lower.
RobStark
Well-Known Member
This is people getting grossly carried away with the possibilities of the Chinese market.
What is superrich? American Standard? Those with a net worth over $50 million USD?
When people-analyst-economist usually speak of "rich" or " middle class" or "working class" they usually mean by local standards.
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An increasing number are joining the ranks of the super rich. The number of Chinese with more than 3.03bn Chinese yuan ($500m) in assets will grow by 6% this year to 535 people, according to a recent report by Wealth-X, a Singapore-based company that collects data on ultra high net-worth individuals.
Other studies have shown that the country’s high net worth population — people with more than 10m Chinese yuan ($1.6m) — is also climbing. Between now and 2015, the country’s high net-worth group will swell from 800,000 people to about 1 million, estimates US-based global management consulting firm Bain & Company.
http://www.bbc.com/capital/story/20140203-the-rise-of-chinas-wealth-dragon
I would classify at least 30 million Americans as upper middle class.
CA alone has over 1 million $ USD millionaires.
BTW If you look at Forbes richest 400 Americans number 400 is worth $1.3B. As opposed to 535 Chines worth over $500M.
There are probably more Americans worth over $500M than there are Chinese.
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hockeythug
Active Member
Anybody ever get a stock certificate for commemorative purposes from this Computershare Trust Company Tesla refeneces in the FAQ answer?
http://ir.teslamotors.com/faq.cfm
http://ir.teslamotors.com/faq.cfm
Muskol
Member
Norse
Active Member
Smog alert: 'very high' air pollution levels spread across England - live | Environment | theguardian.com
Perfect timing for Tesla to start the deliveres in the UK.
Perfect timing for Tesla to start the deliveres in the UK.
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