Losing enthusiasm for Model 3

[TEG]

My experience at the stores recently wasn't so great... It felt like "high pressure sales tactics" like we were told were something Tesla was supposed to avoid with company owned stores...

I go in to a store a while back to sit in a Model 3 that they just got as a display model... Stood in line for an hour to sit in it for 2 minutes.

While in line, someone approaches me and says "I need to get all your info into my iPad to register you to sit in the car."
I respond "I already have put a deposit to make a reservation, and my info is already in the system" the response was "I need you to enter it all again if you want to sit in the car."
I don't know why they wanted all my personal info put into their iPad, but I went ahead with it so I could sit in the car.
Part of me thought maybe I would get a priority bump for waiting in line again...

Someone else approached me and said "are you interested in buying a Tesla today?" and I said "I already have a reservation for Model 3", and then the conversation went something like this:
"You need to buy a new Tesla right away so you don't miss out on the tax credits which will expire at the end of March."
(I knew that was BS and the credit wasn't going to expire so soon) but I replied:
"I am waiting for Model 3, not here to buy a new S or X"
to which salesperson replied:
"Unless you already own a Tesla you won't get a model 3 before the tax credit expires."
to which I replied:
"I am thinking about buying a used Tesla to get owner priority for my Model 3 reservation."
to which they replied:
"That won't work - only buying a new Tesla will qualify you for owner priority on your Model 3 reservation."

It was basically constant pressure: "act now, buy a new Model S or X right now..."
And some of the arguments seemed to be using incorrect information.

That left me feeling discouraged about the whole experience.

 

[McRat]

It's tough to remove those things from other people's cars, though.

Hence why professional defensive driving school and routine follow-ups are worth every penny.

 

[MXWing]

Actually you can. Each year you have about a 1:10,000 chance of dying in a crash. If you don't crash, all cars are just as safe. Driver's training, and removing cellphones, drugs, and booze from your car will save much more money.

Hence why professional defensive driving school and routine follow-ups are worth every penny.

Yes, again I can calculate values on the worth of a limb, cost benefit/cost effectiveness analysis of opportunity A vs opportunity B to prolong life. 1 in 10,000 is statistically quite high compared to what people spend money on earthquake insurance, organic foods, excessive medical testing, etc. Accidents is statistically the most common way to get injured/die from non natural causes by a long shot.

Driver training, not snapchatting yourself when driving, (and why is DUI/Drug use resulting in death not felony murder I don't get). Those are low hanging fruit assumptions that one would address for driving but you can only do so much when people rear end you, swerve into your lane, hit you on a two lane road, etc.

Edit: I agree with you on defensive driving. You still can't address the situations that are unpreventable which relies on the vehicle as the last line of defense.

 

[McRat]

Yes, again I can calculate values on the worth of a limb, cost benefit/cost effectiveness analysis of opportunity A vs opportunity B to prolong life. 1 in 10,000 is statistically quite high compared to what people spend money on earthquake insurance, organic foods, excessive medical testing, etc. Accidents is statistically the most common way to get injured/die from non natural causes by a long shot.

Driver training, not snapchatting yourself when driving, (and why is DUI/Drug use not felony murder I don't get). Those are low hanging fruit assumptions that one would address for driving but you can only do so much when people rear end you, swerve into your lane, hit you on a two lane road, etc.

Drug overdoses are twice as likely to kill you this month as any kind of motor vehicle mishap.

Unless you go to Arizona State, that's not a natural cause of death. Kidding.

 

[Barklikeadog]

My experience at the stores recently wasn't so great... It felt like "high pressure sales tactics" like we were told were something Tesla was supposed to avoid with company owned stores...

I go in to a store a while back to sit in a Model 3 that they just got as a display model... Stood in line for an hour to sit in it for 2 minutes.

While in line, someone approaches me and says "I need to get all your info into my iPad to register you to sit in the car."
I respond "I already have put a deposit to make a reservation, and my info is already in the system" the response was "I need you to enter it all again if you want to sit in the car."
I don't know why they wanted all my personal info their iPad, but I went ahead with it so I could sit in the car.
Part of me thought maybe I would get a priority bump for waiting in line again...

Someone else approached me and said "are you interested in buying a Tesla today" and I said "I already have a reservation for Model 3", and then the conversation went something like this:
"You need to buy a new Tesla right away so you don't miss out on the tax credits which will expire at the end of March."
(I knew that was BS and the credit wasn't going to expire so soon) but I replied:
"I am waiting for Model 3, not here to buy a new S or X"
to which salesperson replied:
"Unless you already own a Tesla you won't get a model 3 before the tax credit expires."
to which I replied:
"I am thinking about buying a used Tesla to get owner priority for my Model 3 reservation."
to which they replied:
"That won't work - only buying a new Tesla will qualify you for owner priority on your Model 3 reservation."

It was basically constant pressure: "act now, buy a new Model S or X right now..."
And some of the arguments seemed to be using incorrect information.

That left me feeling discouraged about the whole experience.

Heh... did they have blow up crazy ballon guys out front? Did the model 3 have a sign in the windshield that reads: Girl-getter?

 

[dm33]

Bottom line is production is LIMITED. The ENTIRE study of Economics comes from the one basic question. How do you reconcile UNLIMITED WANTS, with *LIMITED RESOURCES?*

Its a matter of expectation. Elon shouldn't repeatedly set unrealistic expectations to the general public. If he had announced a $49k car that would be fine. If he had announced a $35k car possibly available in 2020 that may turn out to be fine. But announcing and asking the general public to give Tesla $1000 to reserve a $35k car supposedly available in 2017 is off by a huge mark.
Ignoring how old a reservation is while giving absolute priority to higher priced trims is not what the general public expects. It reinforces an image of Tesla as snobby, elitist.

You do not stand in line at the store and have the cashier ask for only those making the most expensive purchases to step up first. Anyone with lower priced purchases move to the back of the line. And even worse, anyone who shows up later intending to spend more gets to cut in line.

Its simply not what the general public has typically seen nor experiences nor would appreciate. The general response is likely to give up on the line and go somewhere else. There appears little advantage to being in line at all other than making you feel bad because people are repeatedly allowed to cut in line in front of you. Your money isn't good enough. Your two year wait in line counted for nothing. It is disingenuous.

we may see $35,000 Model 3 at this point IF and only IF the higher trim car demands have been exhausted. Tesla needs to push hundreds of thousands of vehicles while they have the credit which is based on calendar dates and not number of vehicles once 200,000 is hit.

I think you're right, and thats my fear. Its the likely path. So it completely depends on what the ultimate demand is for higher priced versions of the Model 3 and Tesla's ultimate ability to produce large quantities. It may well be that Tesla never achieves the volumes they intended and end up selling $50-70k Model 3s in higher volume than Model S, but not the volumes they originally intended for the $35k version. That may ultimately be fine for Tesla. Leave lower priced vehicles to Nissan or Chevy or Hyundai etc.

 

[MXWing]

My experience at the stores recently wasn't so great... It felt like "high pressure sales tactics" like we were told were something Tesla was supposed to avoid with company owned stores...

Their cash burn rate is $8,000/min - have sympathy on them needing to sell something.

Idealism and reality don't always line up.

If you ever owned a company, the lowest person on the totem pole (the store sales people) don't have the same EQ/motivation/sensibility as the founder. It's nothing to be taken personally. Elon makes projections like there is 30,000 people as motivated as him at Tesla. Unfortunately, there is not.

 

[McRat]

Trivia: >150,000 die from trauma in the US each year. Cars are <40,000 of those.

 

[206er]

How many times did Musk tout "$35,000" during the big unveil? 10 times? 20 times? He said it over and over again, $35,000.
I can't imagine why people would get bent out of shape by his prom....opinion.

Hey now, let's back up... if you think about it - and some Olympic-grade mental gymnastics might be required - Elon likely meant that they plan to hopefully someday maybe produce a $35k Model 3, and until they are truly ready to approach the mass market, they intend to focus on serving the small part of the market that's already familiar with their antics like current owners, diehard non-owner enthusiasts, and those with the resources and thirst for the latest and greatest tech toys. Cut the guy some slack, he's trying (right?).

 

[MXWing]

Based on the announcement and the original unveiling speech, one can come to the "promise" of a 35k car at the end of 2017. Nowhere is it mentioned that they will produce the most expensive version first... I get the economics of the program, but to lead someone to put down 1k for a reservation (one that someone assumes is for a 35k car in 2017) is somewhat misleading.... If I remember correctly, you aren't made aware of the timeline of production until after you put your money down. I think it should have been clear on the reservation page.

That being said, I am in for the long haul. Await I shall.... But, Tesla wasn't clear to the public until after the reservations poured in... To think one (who isn't familiar with Tesla and got excited by the hype), to be out pounding the internet for information on timelines is crazy.

For those upset with being constantly bumped and passed over by new customers buying used Teslas from private parties, I can understand the resentment. These are new customers to Tesla (and very important to the grow of the company going forward) and have been waiting for 2 years. I can understand why they are pissed.

Tesla nor anyone else should have to explain "produce and sell the most expensive version first". It's a matter of common business sense and a matter of survival.

Tesla doesn't even know how fast and when they can get cars out until they actually put it to the test. The rest is optimistic projections.

When Tesla burns $8,000 per minute, $1,000 isn't all that much and its refundable. It's news people don't want to hear but I have no problem with telling the truth even if it upsets people. If one is stressing about a $1,000 refundable deposit counting on a $35,000 + $7,500 tax credit (check with your CPA to see if you can actually qualify) you should NOT be getting a Model 3. You are going to get torched on other additions like home charging infrastructure and insurance which is going to be much higher on a Model 3 than a Volt.

Trivia: >150,000 die from trauma in the US each year. Cars are <40,000 of those.

Car trauma accidents can wipe out multiple generations of multiple families. Why are you arguing that a safe car doesn't matter and some driving school is the 1 magic pill solution?

 

[206er]

Their cash burn rate is $8,000/min - have sympathy on them needing to sell something.

Idealism and reality don't always line up.

If you ever owned a company, the lowest person on the totem pole (the store sales people) don't have the same EQ/motivation/sensibility as the founder. It's nothing to be taken personally. Elon makes projections like there is 30,000 people as motivated as him at Tesla. Unfortunately, there is not.

WOW - every one of the 7 people I've met who either works or has worked at Tesla or SpaceX in different roles has been super enthusiastic about their company's mission. Elon has created an intense workplace that isn't for everyone but to sit back and blanket dismiss his subordinates as less motivated than their billionaire boss to accomplish what they're trying to accomplish is straight up disrespectful.

 

[McRat]

... Why are you arguing that a safe car doesn't matter and some driving school is the 1 magic pill solution?

Cars are several times safer mechanically today. But the fatality rate is rising.

 

[Esme Es Mejor]

Interesting, Esme Es Mejor, that I get a Disagree from you for citing facts. Don't know what a reality you live in, but it must be a fascinating one.

Well, gosh, it’s a reality in which you gave me a Disagree for citing facts about my CPO buying experience & how remarkably little depreciation there has been.

If it bothers you so much, maybe you shouldn’t do it to others.

 

[MXWing]

WOW - every one of the 7 people I've met who either works or has worked at Tesla or SpaceX in different roles has been super enthusiastic about their company's mission. Elon has created an intense workplace that isn't for everyone but to sit back and blanket dismiss his subordinates as less motivated than their billionaire boss to accomplish what they're trying to accomplish is straight up disrespectful.

Which generality makes more sense?

Not ALL 30,000 people are as driven as Elon Musk

ALL 30,000 people are super enthusiastic and give it their 100%, day in, day out, sleep on the production line, etc?

Step back and look at things -realistically-

 

[N5329K]

I think you're right, and thats my fear. Its the likely path. So it completely depends on what the ultimate demand is for higher priced versions of the Model 3 and Tesla's ultimate ability to produce large quantities. It may well be that Tesla never achieves the volumes they intended and end up selling $50-70k Model 3s in higher volume than Model S, but not the volumes they originally intended for the $35k version. That may ultimately be fine for Tesla.
But building luxury cars in relatively small numbers is not so good for "Accelerating the world's transition to sustainable transport."
Unless Tesla thinks its work there is done.
Robin

 

[Asymmetry]

Good things to those who wait.

M3 is the only EV I'd consider at this stage Yeah its the worlds most Expensive DLC but its a damn good car.

 

[Dan Detweiler]

How many times did Musk tout "$35,000" during the big unveil? 10 times? 20 times? He said it over and over again, $35,000.
I can't imagine why people would get bent out of shape by his prom....opinion.

Yeah, I can't imagine it either. Have we seen a definite comment or tweet or post that says there will not be a $35,000 variant available? No, I haven't seen one either. Did they say that the higher optioned cars would be available first? Oh yeah, we did get that one.

Yeah, I don't see how people could get bent out of shape by his prom...opinion either.

By the way, I saw an article the other day that said 93% of reservation holders would prefer and would order higher option cars. Maybe Tesla is trying to please the majority first after all.

Dan

 

[roblab]

Cars are several times safer mechanically today. But the fatality rate is rising.

Too many people. It's the people who aren't several times safer, and often several times more unsafe.

 

[Dan Detweiler]

Too many people. It's the people who aren't several times safer, and often several times more unsafe.

For sure! Then we need to ban cars to the public. Hey, it would work for guns, why not cars?

*ducks head and runs for cover*

LOL!

Dan

Sarcasm folks...this is sarcasm. No offense intended, just a laugh.

 

[roblab]

Yeah, I can't imagine it either. Have we seen a definite comment or tweet or post that says there will not be a $35,000 variant available? No, I haven't seen one either. Did they say that the higher optioned cars would be available first? Oh yeah, we did get that one.

Yeah, I don't see how people could get bent out of shape by his prom...opinion either.

Dan

YES! All these people worrying about getting their base cheapest Model 3 first. I optioned up, and would not have bought a base model. Extra battery, enhanced TACC, premium package. You get what you pay for.