Losing enthusiasm for Model 3

[Chris350]

Tesla nor anyone else should have to explain "produce and sell the most expensive version first". It's a matter of common business sense and a matter of survival.

Tesla doesn't even know how fast and when they can get cars out until they actually put it to the test. The rest is optimistic projections.

When Tesla burns $8,000 per minute, $1,000 isn't all that much and its refundable. It's news people don't want to hear but I have no problem with telling the truth even if it upsets people. If one is stressing about a $1,000 refundable deposit counting on a $35,000 + $7,500 tax credit (check with your CPA to see if you can actually qualify) you should NOT be getting a Model 3. You are going to get torched on other additions like home charging infrastructure and insurance which is going to be much higher on a Model 3 than a Volt.

Then tell people that upfront..... Why is that so hard to do??? Why present a 35k price, tell people how to buy it and then AFTER they put their money up, then tell them that they are in for a 2+ year wait?

Tesla knew upfront that they burn major $$$ a minute.... So, to be transparent, let the patron know (before they put their money down) the scale of roll out.... This information was not presented until AFTER the reservation was made... Why piss off your future patrons by not disclosing up front? There is no downside to disclosing this information.... Just like it wasn't disclosed that if someone last month chose to buy a used Tesla from a private party got the ability to "jump the line".... That used tesla in no way contributed to the R&D of the Model 3.

Again, I have my reservation and I am happy to wait my turn (July -Sept) for my 60K car.... But if you think it's ok for Tesla to not be transparent to their future customer before they put their money down, then something is wrong... It will only hurt them in the long run...

 

[Moderatefan]

CURB your enthusiasm until the estimated delivery.

 

[Beckler]

I must remember to come and read TMC more often to make sure people aren't losing enthusiasm for things I'm considering. I wouldn't want to buy a car just to go and have some random internet poster lose enthusiasm for it and therefore its value to me drop to zero. (Frank translation: this thread, indeed most of TMC, is 100% useless. )

 

[jsrawa]

Its a matter of expectation. Elon shouldn't repeatedly set unrealistic expectations to the general public. If he had announced a $49k car that would be fine. If he had announced a $35k car possibly available in 2020 that may turn out to be fine. But announcing and asking the general public to give Tesla $1000 to reserve a $35k car supposedly available in 2017 is off by a huge mark.
Ignoring how old a reservation is while giving absolute priority to higher priced trims is not what the general public expects. It reinforces an image of Tesla as snobby, elitist.

You do not stand in line at the store and have the cashier ask for only those making the most expensive purchases to step up first. Anyone with lower priced purchases move to the back of the line. And even worse, anyone who shows up later intending to spend more gets to cut in line.

Its simply not what the general public has typically seen nor experiences nor would appreciate. The general response is likely to give up on the line and go somewhere else. There appears little advantage to being in line at all other than making you feel bad because people are repeatedly allowed to cut in line in front of you. Your money isn't good enough. Your two year wait in line counted for nothing. It is disingenuous.


I think you're right, and thats my fear. Its the likely path. So it completely depends on what the ultimate demand is for higher priced versions of the Model 3 and Tesla's ultimate ability to produce large quantities. It may well be that Tesla never achieves the volumes they intended and end up selling $50-70k Model 3s in higher volume than Model S, but not the volumes they originally intended for the $35k version. That may ultimately be fine for Tesla. Leave lower priced vehicles to Nissan or Chevy or Hyundai etc.

I know some people disagree but I liked your store line analogy, it made me think about how frustrating it really is. I understand Tesla needs $$$ but the part that really bothers me is when someone bought a Tesla a week ago can configure today when I have been waiting almost two years (I know, loyalty blah blah blah). They need to draw the line in the sand somewhere but they clearly have not and do not plan to.

 

[Carotene]

I'm really on the fence myself OP. I don't recall ever having been this ambivalent about a purchase, and certainly never one this large. A used MS is out of the question. I refuse to drop that much cash on a car that will find its way out of warranty too soon. Out of warranty repairs on a niche car can be.... pricey to say the least. So the M3? $50k ($40k after incentives in my state) would be the most expensive car purchase to date.The M3 would save about $250/mo on gas and the LR warranty is comforting. Still, $50k???

My issue is I don't NEED this car. It's a solid WANT. I'm an engineer. I'm a gearhead. I work in renewable energy. This car occupies the space at the confluence of green/technology/car performance. But I have other priorities. A growing family. A need for a new family hauler (not a sedan). A new kitchen! Viable options are coming to market soon as well. I've got my eye on the Volvo XC40 EV in 2019ish.

All this to say everyone has their own story and situation. Behind every M3 reservation is a lot of soul searching a waffling. The $35k vehicle for the masses has yet to materialize. The average Joes looking to get a piece of Tesla action need to weigh the stretch to $50k now or risk losing out on the tax credit. Pretty fascinating when you think about it. I know several other folks with reservations who are going through the same waffling. This is a big purchase for the VAST majority of non-owner reservations. It's going to be an interesting 2018. Who is going to show up with the cash and who will bow out?

 

[DanH]

I know some people disagree but I liked your store line analogy, it made me think about how frustrating it really is. I understand Tesla needs $$$ but the part that really bothers me is when someone bought a Tesla a week ago can configure today when I have been waiting almost two years (I know, loyalty blah blah blah). They need to draw the line in the sand somewhere but they clearly have not and do not plan to.

I agree. New owners get to jump the queue. Some non owners who reserved online are getting to configure before those who stood in line. It's total lack of transparency. Fortunately for Tesla, there's nothing comparable in the market at the moment. It is what it is! After all, it's only a car.

 

[xav-]

I'm really on the fence myself OP. I don't recall ever having been this ambivalent about a purchase, and certainly never one this large. A used MS is out of the question. I refuse to drop that much cash on a car that will find its way out of warranty too soon. Out of warranty repairs on a niche car can be.... pricey to say the least. So the M3? $50k ($40k after incentives in my state) would be the most expensive car purchase to date.The M3 would save about $250/mo on gas and the LR warranty is comforting. Still, $50k???

My issue is I don't NEED this car. It's a solid WANT. I'm an engineer. I'm a gearhead. I work in renewable energy. This car occupies the space at the confluence of green/technology/car performance. But I have other priorities. A growing family. A need for a new family hauler (not a sedan). A new kitchen! Viable options are coming to market soon as well. I've got my eye on the Volvo XC40 EV in 2019ish.

All this to say everyone has their own story and situation. Behind every M3 reservation is a lot of soul searching a waffling. The $35k vehicle for the masses has yet to materialize. The average Joes looking to get a piece of Tesla action need to weigh the stretch to $50k now or risk losing out on the tax credit. Pretty fascinating when you think about it. I know several other folks with reservations who are going through the same waffling. This is a big purchase for the VAST majority of non-owner reservations. It's going to be an interesting 2018. Who is going to show up with the cash and who will bow out?

$250 a month in gas savings? I wish I were in your position man.. it would be far easier to justify it... $55k for this car and the 7,500 tax saving AND $250 tax saving a month... for something comparable to a $70k BMW... that is cheap. Doesn't mean every one can afford it... but its a good deal.

Forget the f**** kitchen and get the car man. You live only once.

 

[streetskooler]

I'm really on the fence myself OP. I don't recall ever having been this ambivalent about a purchase, and certainly never one this large. A used MS is out of the question. I refuse to drop that much cash on a car that will find its way out of warranty too soon. Out of warranty repairs on a niche car can be.... pricey to say the least. So the M3? $50k ($40k after incentives in my state) would be the most expensive car purchase to date.The M3 would save about $250/mo on gas and the LR warranty is comforting. Still, $50k???

My issue is I don't NEED this car. It's a solid WANT. I'm an engineer. I'm a gearhead. I work in renewable energy. This car occupies the space at the confluence of green/technology/car performance. But I have other priorities. A growing family. A need for a new family hauler (not a sedan). A new kitchen! Viable options are coming to market soon as well. I've got my eye on the Volvo XC40 EV in 2019ish.

All this to say everyone has their own story and situation. Behind every M3 reservation is a lot of soul searching a waffling. The $35k vehicle for the masses has yet to materialize. The average Joes looking to get a piece of Tesla action need to weigh the stretch to $50k now or risk losing out on the tax credit. Pretty fascinating when you think about it. I know several other folks with reservations who are going through the same waffling. This is a big purchase for the VAST majority of non-owner reservations. It's going to be an interesting 2018. Who is going to show up with the cash and who will bow out?

I echo almost everything you said here, except the gas savings as I don’t drive as much as you. This car is a definite want for me too and not a need. I too have a growing family and could allocate the money I would spent on my Tesla to other things around the house. I’ve decided if i can get the full tax credit I’m in if not then I’ll likely pass, unfortunately.

 

[Esme Es Mejor]

$50k ($40k after incentives in my state) would be the most expensive car purchase to date.The M3 would save about $250/mo on gas and the LR warranty is comforting. Still, $50k???

Financially, it’s a no-brainer. Let’s say you sell the car in 3-5 years when it’s lost 1/2 its value. So you’ll get back $25k, and the car will actually cost you $25k over 3-5 years. Pretty good.

But you get those $10k in incentives, so it actually costs you $15k over 3-5 years. That’s really good!

But you also save $250/month in gas (lower-mileage people won’t save nearly as much). That’s $3k/year. Over 3-5 years of ownership, that’ll save you $9-15k.

So, the actual cost to you should be at most $6k over 3 years, or as little as $0 over 5 years. Either way, it’s a great deal.

People are getting hung up on sticker price & not realizing just how cheap this amazing car is.

 

[McRat]

I must remember to come and read TMC more often to make sure people aren't losing enthusiasm for things I'm considering. I wouldn't want to buy a car just to go and have some random internet poster lose enthusiasm for it and therefore its value to me drop to zero. (Frank translation: this thread, indeed most of TMC, is 100% useless. )

Could be worse. You could spend all your time reading about all the new Canadian Superchargers.

 

[nvx1977]

A used MS is out of the question. I refuse to drop that much cash on a car that will find its way out of warranty too soon.

If you get a CPO from Tesla, you get a renewed 4yr, 50,000mi warranty. I got my S this way for 50k, intending to spend what I would for a Model 3. Battery is 8yr, infinite miles from first owner. I've seen enough evidence that Tesla knows what their doing to maintain battery longevity so not too concerned there.

My issue is I don't NEED this car. It's a solid WANT. I'm an engineer. I'm a gearhead. I work in renewable energy. This car occupies the space at the confluence of green/technology/car performance. But I have other priorities. A growing family.

Engineer here too (chemical, software) The growing family pushed me to the S over the 3 because of the extra space. The hatchback has come in really handy. Thinking of getting the roof rack too for more gear transport.

I was raised to be extremely frugal, and I've been fiscally conservative all my life. My Tesla S and 3 purchase is the first time I put down this much money on a car. In many ways it goes against all of my instincts. But this is the first time I felt like my purchase was bigger than my own wants. This is a company that is finally successfully forcing innovation in an industry that is still stuck on 19th century tech. And it's so rare to be a disruptor because of the insane amount of cash required to be a successful auto manufacturer.

I think we see some in this thread who are the collateral damage of an inexperienced automaker. I'm not making excuses for Tesla. If Tesla wants to provide a good customer experience, it goes beyond the capabilities of the car. We cannot fault people for feeling like Tesla broke promises. Objectively, Tesla either intentionally created an expectation, or they did little to set proper expectations. I believe Tesla/Musk truly believed he could get the base Model 3 out in 2018. Because he couldn't, he's losing sales (as we see in the cancellation thread) and creating negative perceptions of his brand. You cannot expect the mass market to care about the mission or to give Tesla a pass. Knowing about Tesla's history of production delays is not a prerequisite for desiring a Model 3. We diehard fans ought to remember that. Maybe Tesla can afford the collateral damage now, given the demand way outstrips supply, but in the long term, this is dangerous for the company's sustainability.

I would hope that we are all unified in wanting Tesla to get their sh*t together and start cranking out a ton of Model 3s right now. And have them work well post-delivery.

 

[MXWing]

People are getting hung up on sticker price & not realizing just how cheap this amazing car is.

Every Tesla comes with the same infotainment system and is as safe as any other Tesla.

Safety and navigation always adds a few grand to another car.

 

[Eclectic]

I'm really on the fence myself OP. I don't recall ever having been this ambivalent about a purchase, and certainly never one this large. A used MS is out of the question. I refuse to drop that much cash on a car that will find its way out of warranty too soon. Out of warranty repairs on a niche car can be.... pricey to say the least. So the M3? $50k ($40k after incentives in my state) would be the most expensive car purchase to date.The M3 would save about $250/mo on gas and the LR warranty is comforting. Still, $50k???

My issue is I don't NEED this car. It's a solid WANT. I'm an engineer. I'm a gearhead. I work in renewable energy. This car occupies the space at the confluence of green/technology/car performance. But I have other priorities. A growing family. A need for a new family hauler (not a sedan). A new kitchen! Viable options are coming to market soon as well. I've got my eye on the Volvo XC40 EV in 2019ish.

All this to say everyone has their own story and situation. Behind every M3 reservation is a lot of soul searching a waffling. The $35k vehicle for the masses has yet to materialize. The average Joes looking to get a piece of Tesla action need to weigh the stretch to $50k now or risk losing out on the tax credit. Pretty fascinating when you think about it. I know several other folks with reservations who are going through the same waffling. This is a big purchase for the VAST majority of non-owner reservations. It's going to be an interesting 2018. Who is going to show up with the cash and who will bow out?

How many miles do you drive in a typical month? The $250 savings estimate seems really high. Just based on the calculator on the Tesla website you'd have to be driving over 3000 miles per month to have a $250 monthly savings (and that's based on an average MPG of 21 for your ICE car, which is ridiculously low for anything other than an SUV). Are you driving 36,000 miles a year in a vehicle that gets less than 21 mpg? If you do, you're going to blow through the Model 3 warranty in less than 2 years.

 

[MXWing]

Tesla Model S Hits 300,000 Miles with less than $11,000 maintenance costs

From the "experiences" of people here, this car would have been needed to be rebuilt from the ground up 10 times already.

 

[MXWing]

Forget the f**** kitchen and get the car man. You live only once.

and can be married many times.

 

[brkaus]

Then tell people that upfront..... Why is that so hard to do??? Why present a 35k price, tell people how to buy it and then AFTER they put their money up, then tell them that they are in for a 2+ year wait?

I’m not sure Tesla had any idea there would be so many preorders.

 

[EV-lutioin]

Is you are tired of waiting, lease a Bolt or Leaf until your Model 3 is available. In the end, there is no comparison, the Model 3 is far superior, but at least you can enjoy a placeholder EV while you wait.

 

[dm33]

Every Tesla comes with the same infotainment system and is as safe as any other Tesla.

Safety and navigation always adds a few grand to another car.

Most cars support CarPlay while Teslas do not. CarPlay or Android Auto let you do excellent navigation and other services, Pandora, Spotify, iHeartRadio, reading text messages, voice activation of many/most of the features.
Many cars are very safe and 5 star rated. Driver assistance features are becoming more common. Others don't have quite the capabilities of autopilot, and hopefully autopilot will get some needed updates to fulfill its potential.

 

[MXWing]

Most cars support CarPlay while Teslas do not. CarPlay or Android Auto let you do excellent navigation and other services, Pandora, Spotify, iHeartRadio, reading text messages, voice activation of many/most of the features.
Many cars are very safe and 5 star rated. Driver assistance features are becoming more common. Others don't have quite the capabilities of autopilot, and hopefully autopilot will get some needed updates to fulfill its potential.

5 out of 5 stars is not the same as a numerical rating like 3448/5000. Tesla changes the scale.

Carplay has its own weaknesses. Apple Maps and using the phone will take you out of Carplay Mode.

We can't say anything because it's not here yet but Tesla is on deck for an imminent remap of navigation. I'll believe Elon when he says "almost here" versus "aspirationally hope to be there".

I have had a 2014 Volt and currently have a 2018 Volt.

Non Tesla owners have told me that the Volt has Lane Keep Assist and so does the Ford Focus! Never having used ANY flavor of AP1 or AP2 they think its functionally equivalent to autosteer....

I did LA to Vegas with all but some local roads and onramps 100% autosteer. Other "automation" is off by an entire dimension.

This is the kind of people I have to debate. :/

 

[ℬête Noire]

I hear what you're saying about the charging infrastructure, and without a doubt, it is a factor. But at the moment, there are still two other ICE vehicles in our household for longer trips, and if it was that much of a concern, I'd probably get a Volt. I just wish EM would be a little more realistic about projected timelines.

Then don't call it "full-fledged", because it isn't....and I should have an inkling here, I own one. While having a solid single charge range that'll cover large swaths of usage, they simply are not up to being a primary or only car in a household. The Model 3 is, although probably only in some regions in the case of the SR. The LR is anywhere in the US outside of Alaska and probably most of ND, eastern MT, maybe western fringe of MN.

Also your comment about the Bolt that it "seems to have no shortage of them available" is somewhere in the range of deluded and/or deceptive, because they are very much limited by Chevy. It just happens that market demand is currently matching their supply, while demand for the Model 3 is far exceeding the Tesla's already larger supply of those.