Most people don't want the wheels, but they developed the model as a system, and those were the wheels they used. Mercedes charges 8K for the C63S, which gives you a .1 second faster 0-60. Audi sells the dynamic package for the RS3, which adds ceramic brakes but takes away the magnetic suspension. I understand that people didn't want the wheels (I'm not happy about them either), but that subjective view doesn't justify all the vitriol about how Tesla is pricing their models. 10k for a whole second faster is pretty much industry standard. The only difference is the lack of aesthetic differences, which is what I would focus on if we are comparing values.
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Ludicrous Mode for P3D+ only or P3D- inclusive?
- Thread starter Maximilien
- Start date
Most people don't want the wheels, but they developed the model as a system, and those were the wheels they used. Mercedes charges 8K for the C63S, which gives you a .1 second faster 0-60. Audi sells the dynamic package for the RS3, which adds ceramic brakes but takes away the magnetic suspension. I understand that people didn't want the wheels (I'm not happy about them either), but that subjective view doesn't justify all the vitriol about how Tesla is pricing their models. 10k for a whole second faster is pretty much industry standard. The only difference is the lack of aesthetic differences, which is what I would focus on if we are comparing values.
wbhokie
Member
Yeah it was the wheels that stopped me from ordering PUP too. Unlike the S and X, you had no options for wheels on the model 3 unless you ordered PUP. It was 20" wheels or nothing. I think this was due to the rush of the performance model to begin with. They didn't even know themselves what the specs were going to be on the brakes, calipers, rotors, and once they figured out bigger wheels were necessary they just put the biggest ones offered as part of a cash grab since the smallest wheels didn't fit the performance brake systems unlike the S/X which did. As a Model S owner, I liked the look of the bigger wheels, but had read from so many Model S / X owners about how potholes absolutely destroyed their rims.
All of that just loops back to the lack of detailed info during the order process. 19" wheels were required for typical "Performance" Tesla hardware. 19" wheels should have been Standard, and the brakes/rotors as well. But Tesla decided to sell in parts to make the speed portion more affordable, while leaving out part of the hardware that made up a typical "performance Tesla." It is nice that there will be a way to upgrade later to parts of the PUP, I just hope it isn't the entire package. For instance, something like the MPP Brake package, or a "Tesla Performance Brake Package Upgrade". which would require 19" rims or bigger.
Although I have a P3D-, I don't plan to purchase Ludicrous if it were to become available to me, nor do I plan to ever track my car. But I still like to think of how I wish they would have done things.
MacGreiner
5YJ
I would look to the operational model Tesla used for Xs and Ss to determine what Model 3 package will be offered Ludicrous.
MacGreiner
5YJ
Glamisduner
Active Member
Well you're right that it is not like an ICE Car. If track mode just disabled traction control and changes the cooling system that's not much more than I can do on every car equipped with those features that I have ever owned. Ford Focus, yep, chevy volt, highlander yep. Ok my 91 geo metro did not have this feature..... It does not need to be a $5000 upgrade to be able to turn this off or provide an alternate setting. It does not have lower the suspension or modify the way the shocks react. The 11k price increase is mostly removing a software limitation and a little bit in parts binning, you would think $1000 or so of this could go towards providing what pretty much every modern car comes with standard. So yes I am displeased even though it's not a feature I will worry about.
I still have an edit button, but I don't want track mode enough to dump 5g's and rims and brakes can be added later (plus I get to choose what I want, although the tesla wheels look fine). I think I will use auto pilot daily where track mode would only get used a handful of time, so my extra 5k is going towards EAP, and the other 3K to get the color I want.
Msjulie
Active Member
Mostly I think I share the frustration that Tesla does not communicate what's going on, what comes with what, when you get your 'silly' badges etc. Information would go miles towards reducing the vitriol on how Tesla prices things; informed consumers can make informed decisions and the rest of us... well
I agree, I'm having doubts about the whole purchase. 78K is a lot of money and if you cross shop you can get a lot of car with that. Tesla can assuage these fears with data, which is the most deficient of any car company. But they are banking on the fact that early adopters will put up with it, and they are right. All I can do is hope it will be worth it.
If it is offered for free at all, it would be in the PUP. Anything further is a gamble. That said, what has happened in the past? It started with Insane acceleration mode in the P85D. Sport gave less power, and Insane gave 50% more to the full 691hp (vs. 460hp in Sport). That sounds a similar to regular and Chill mode, but not quite. Ludicrous was a paid option that replaced connections with space grade quality that could handle the heat transfer of extra power. P85D owners had to pay for a battery upgrade for $3000 and $5000+labor for the Ludicrous. For new P90D owners, it was a $10,000 option.
So the way I see it, if it happens, it will be an additional paid for option for all P's. Would it be $5000 or $10,000? How much would it really improve acceleration? Like Ludicrous, it would basically be a special launch mode that takes time to set up and definitely causes extra wear. On the P85D, it made a 10% improvement from 0-60 in 3.2 to 2.9 seconds. That's not worth ANOTHER $10k from me.
my side note: I kinda thought they should have had it at 2.9-3.2 range anyway. New M5 is 0-60 in 3.2, and a new M3 will be coming in a year in the 3's. I think that if Tesla wanted to really make it quicker, they'd replace the rear motor to an AC induction motor like the S/X for that snapping instant power. Heck, put the partial permanent magnet motor up front and let it be more FWD under cruising speeds.
So the way I see it, if it happens, it will be an additional paid for option for all P's. Would it be $5000 or $10,000? How much would it really improve acceleration? Like Ludicrous, it would basically be a special launch mode that takes time to set up and definitely causes extra wear. On the P85D, it made a 10% improvement from 0-60 in 3.2 to 2.9 seconds. That's not worth ANOTHER $10k from me.
my side note: I kinda thought they should have had it at 2.9-3.2 range anyway. New M5 is 0-60 in 3.2, and a new M3 will be coming in a year in the 3's. I think that if Tesla wanted to really make it quicker, they'd replace the rear motor to an AC induction motor like the S/X for that snapping instant power. Heck, put the partial permanent magnet motor up front and let it be more FWD under cruising speeds.
I did read a good point in that the track mode is likely programmed around a vehicle with the reduced ride height and factoring in the greater breaking power (as it modulates the regen breaking also). This is really giving them the benefit of doubt but it could be a decision to not program a second version for non PUP models rather than a cynical effort to increase PUP sales.
Perry
Active Member
Correction, we do not want everything the higher priced model has available because it's junk. We want better aftermarket parts than the P+ offers: larger lighter rotors, lighter forged wheels, better coilovers, etc. So some of us are not buying the + because what we get for that $5000 is throw away stuff or stuff I'll have to spend time selling. I rather get the P- and then spend $5000+ on the parts that I actually want and are more performant. For us, not getting track mode makes no sense.
There shouldn't be an all encompassing generic mode like "track mode" anyway. That looks like yet another nanny mode. You should be able to set these settings individually:
- disable skid control
- disable traction control
- disable stabilization
- disable ABS (for testing)
- maximize battery cooling
- increase regenerative braking
We are not babies. We should be able to turn these on and off at our will in whatever combination we please.
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Msjulie
Active Member
@Perry yup
Mind you, nothing wrong with the upgrade if you want the specific bling bits but if a higher acceleration mode shows up, why shouldn't my stealth performance be eligible (even if at a cost) w/o me losing my 'stealth' car.. especially if I have done brake improvements myself, etc...
Mind you, nothing wrong with the upgrade if you want the specific bling bits but if a higher acceleration mode shows up, why shouldn't my stealth performance be eligible (even if at a cost) w/o me losing my 'stealth' car.. especially if I have done brake improvements myself, etc...
Jedi2155
Model 3 has Arrived.
I hope this will be the case, but all we have described to us so far is Elon's description from the Markee video which outlines the above scenario, and a few demo videos which suggests an nanny version.
I think we are seeing the weird convergence of software and hardware differences. I don't think many of us would question why the BMW M3 has more HP along with better breaks blah blah than the standard turbo 3 series. At the same time, when I had my 335i the performance package didn't change the engine output, it just gave me better suspension and wheels.
I think Tesla is constantly scrambling to add new things and be on the edge, I'm sure at that times that bites them (and us) in the arse.
UltralightBeam
Member
They will. It’s also on the TSportline page in the drop down option when picking options!
Weird. The modes you're referring to affect steering, not acceleration or pedal response.
I think it's totally reasonable to ask for the ability to disable traction and stability control. I wish they would have done that for the Model S AWD flavors as well. I don't hold much hope they'll do that for S, but now is the right time to ask politely for Tesla to offer it for the entire spectrum of Model 3. If you feel strongly, give Tesla the feedback directly. I wouldn't recommend calling it Track Mode, as that refers to a feature offering that means more.
As for cooling, I suspect the cooling tweaks related to Track Mode have potential warranty impact that Tesla considers baked into the premium pricing so I'm not optimistic requests for that down the Model 3 line will yield much fruit.
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