[!= Ludicrous Mode, MVPA generated] - Should I walk away?

[Fragger]

Hello again friends,

Some of you guys know my journey here for the last week or so, as I try to get my first Tesla. Everything is ready to go, MVPA is generated, gotta send in some payments and I will be picking up my car in weeks or so... Texas is difficult.

But before I pull the final triggers, I need some input...

The car I have ordered in a 2014 P85D+ upgraded to a P90D, 38K miles, Multi-Coat Red, 21 inch wheels, AP1, MCU replaced last summer for the cost of $44,800. Basically, it has everything I'd want, including the Tesla warranty, but has been ripped of Free supercharging, connectivity is no longer free and is a 3G connection. Basically, what it's missing like the Sub-zero package, connectivity and all, I am coming to terms with based on the rest of it. The car also looks scratchless! Final bonus, it's practically local so I dodged the transportation fees too!

So what's wrong? What's missing? I bought the car with a P90DL badge on it. From all accounts from Tesla it does not have the Ludicrous update. As I'm bored and learning through the forums, I made the mistake of reading experiences of people with Ludicrous. How it's not only about the 0 - 60 time, but 30 to 70 and highway passing. And AFAIK, there will be no way to apply the upgrade later either. Even a P85DL is going to be faster. So, please help me think this through...

Should I walk away from this car and wait for a P90DL to come available at a good price? Or pull the trigger cause this is too good to pass up and L is not a big enough deal?

Tagging some friends I made here as well. @HankLloydRight @Seachange01 @jgatl

Thank you!

 

[KalJoMoS]

I have seen you lurking around here and have to admit you can’t get better at this time for sure. I would always prefer 90kW battery over 85kW, with the extra that it has new battery too. To remind you these 85kW battery’s have the worst degradation seen here...
One other person here have said: “The only other car that is faster than yours is another Tesla!” Good luck with your car.

 

[jgatl]

Per this post, it is possible to upgrade a P85D to have Ludicrous mode, and that upgrade would have a couple of hardware changes (quoted from Motor Trend):

The upgrade adds a couple of pieces of hardware to the P90D, including main battery pack contacts made of Inconel (a "space-grade super alloy") that allows Tesla to increase the current flow rate from 1,300 to 1,500 amps, and an advanced new fuse for the 90-kW-hr battery. This fuse has its own electronics and a tiny lithium-ion battery built into it that allows Tesla to better bridge the gap between a Model S' normal operating current and max current.​

If the prior owner paid for service upgrades, they should be listed on the service history. @dabbler offered to get you the service history on that VIN. My guess is that the upgraded battery pack contacts left the car with 85kwh battery (since Tesla was eating the cost of a battery under warranty). I'd start with the service history to see if you can determine when the Ludicrous upgrade was installed. Use that service history to ask your Tesla salesperson why it was removed and what it would cost to re-enable it. From there, you have 3 choices:

1. Request that the sales person provide a cost to upgrade the '14 P85D+ to have Ludicrous mode (guessing $5-10K) - pay that at delivery
2. Ask for the quote from option 1 to be honored later, take delivery, and upgrade once you've driven the car for a while. You may find you are happy with the performance of the P85D+.
3. Refuse delivery and select a (different) Ludicrous-enabled used Tesla. There are several available on Tesla's site. Since you like the model you picked, you may be able to negotiate a better deal on the upgrade (option 1/2), if you have the service history and have a few others to choose from.

2016 Model S | Tesla
2015 Model S | Tesla
2015 Model S | Tesla

I would be happy without it, but then again, I don't own a Ludicrous-enabled MS.

 

[Ostrichsak]

I have seen you lurking around here and have to admit you can’t get better at this time for sure. I would always prefer 90kW battery over 85kW, with the extra that it has new battery too. To remind you these 85kW battery’s have the worst degradation seen here...
One other person here have said: “The only other car that is faster than yours is another Tesla!” Good luck with your car.

What about the dozens of threads claiming that the 85 is a better battery pack than the 90 because there were so many different versions of the 90 and you never know what you're getting?

I see this 85 v 90 debate regularly and depending on the time of day it seems to swing wildly from one direction to the other. I say by the best car for the best price that suits your needs regardless of which of those two battery packs it has and you'll be just fine. If it ends up being a 90 make sure it has a v3 battery pack which can be difficult at times.

That said Fragger, I wouldn't buy that car on principal alone. To me it's a question of morality that Tesla made thousands of dollars on an option they added to a car and later removed. I don't like to reward bad behavior so for me personally I would find another car. I also wouldn't buy a used car from Tesla right now because of the shenanigans they're playing with the supercharging and premium data. That's just me though.

 

[Simon_Emes]

Car is fine. Only another Tesla will beat you, but having had a p90dl for some time I never put it into Ludicrous. It is so extreme already as a performance only, never felt the need and in the beginning got a headache and felt sick after every drive.

 

[Chaserr]

To remind you these 85kW battery’s have the worst degradation seen here...

85 is one of the best Tesla batteries when it comes to degradation. unfortunately, they are often intentionally software crippled to appear like they had degraded naturally. It's definitely not degradation though, you can prove it by checking volts - tesla limits them from charging more than ~85% and resets the battery gauge so you don't realize it. 90 packs had a reputation for actually degrading more, but I don't think they are being intentionally software crippled like the 85 and 75 are.

 

[MichaelP90DL]

I'd probably walk.

For what it's worth, later this year I'd like to pick up a new or nearly-new Model S Performance, which means my beloved Tessie will be put up for adoption. But at a price that reflects its value. (A new 12-volt battery was installed this week.)

 

[Fragger]

I have seen you lurking around here and have to admit you can’t get better at this time for sure. I would always prefer 90kW battery over 85kW, with the extra that it has new battery too. To remind you these 85kW battery’s have the worst degradation seen here...
One other person here have said: “The only other car that is faster than yours is another Tesla!” Good luck with your car.

Thank you for your response bud. Yes, lurking and learning... Frankly, I don't know whom to believe on the battery quality thing. For every pro 90 pack commentary, there is an contrasting 85 pack comment. I'm leaning towards the 90 pack being the better buy, especially post v2. However, Tesla doesn't reveal much about the cars... So I'm not sure what pack I have...

Per this post, it is possible to upgrade a P85D to have Ludicrous mode, and that upgrade would have a couple of hardware changes (quoted from Motor Trend):

The upgrade adds a couple of pieces of hardware to the P90D, including main battery pack contacts made of Inconel (a "space-grade super alloy") that allows Tesla to increase the current flow rate from 1,300 to 1,500 amps, and an advanced new fuse for the 90-kW-hr battery. This fuse has its own electronics and a tiny lithium-ion battery built into it that allows Tesla to better bridge the gap between a Model S' normal operating current and max current.​

If the prior owner paid for service upgrades, they should be listed on the service history. @dabbler offered to get you the service history on that VIN. My guess is that the upgraded battery pack contacts left the car with 85kwh battery (since Tesla was eating the cost of a battery under warranty). I'd start with the service history to see if you can determine when the Ludicrous upgrade was installed. Use that service history to ask your Tesla salesperson why it was removed and what it would cost to re-enable it. From there, you have 3 choices:

1. Request that the sales person provide a cost to upgrade the '14 P85D+ to have Ludicrous mode (guessing $5-10K) - pay that at delivery
2. Ask for the quote from option 1 to be honored later, take delivery, and upgrade once you've driven the car for a while. You may find you are happy with the performance of the P85D+.
3. Refuse delivery and select a (different) Ludicrous-enabled used Tesla. There are several available on Tesla's site. Since you like the model you picked, you may be able to negotiate a better deal on the upgrade (option 1/2), if you have the service history and have a few others to choose from.

2016 Model S | Tesla
2015 Model S | Tesla
2015 Model S | Tesla

I would be happy without it, but then again, I don't own a Ludicrous-enabled MS.

Thank you jgatl, I could be wrong... But I read somewhere that the Service Centers no longer have the ability to enable Ludicrous upgrades anymore... That is if you can convince Tesla that this car had it, give it to me haha!

P85DLs can be found, but the range and degradation on them from the Lud mode, concerns me more than a P90DL having it... Trust me.. If Tesla were allowing this upgrade for money, I wouldn't second guess...

I just posted here to get real world experience advice, not what the numbers are saying per se...

What about the dozens of threads claiming that the 85 is a better battery pack than the 90 because there were so many different versions of the 90 and you never know what you're getting?

I see this 85 v 90 debate regularly and depending on the time of day it seems to swing wildly from one direction to the other. I say by the best car for the best price that suits your needs regardless of which of those two battery packs it has and you'll be just fine. If it ends up being a 90 make sure it has a v3 battery pack which can be difficult at times.

That said Fragger, I wouldn't buy that car on principal alone. To me it's a question of morality that Tesla made thousands of dollars on an option they added to a car and later removed. I don't like to reward bad behavior so for me personally I would find another car. I also wouldn't buy a used car from Tesla right now because of the shenanigans they're playing with the supercharging and premium data. That's just me though.

I completely agree with you Ostrich about the principal thing. But my choices are: find a unicorn private seller or go to the dealership that may or may not have properly cared for the car... Most often, they have not. So it's basically picking the lesser evil, if you will...?

Car is fine. Only another Tesla will beat you, but having had a p90dl for some time I never put it into Ludicrous. It is so extreme already as a performance only, never felt the need and in the beginning got a headache and felt sick after every drive.

Haha this is the kind of real world feedback I need... You're probably right... But I couldn't help myself to be careful and ask the people on this forum for their advice...

85 is one of the best Tesla batteries when it comes to degradation. unfortunately, they are often intentionally software crippled to appear like they had degraded naturally. It's definitely not degradation though, you can prove it by checking volts - tesla limits them from charging more than ~85% and resets the battery gauge so you don't realize it. 90 packs had a reputation for actually degrading more, but I don't think they are being intentionally software crippled like the 85 and 75 are.

Chaser, thanks for this info. I posted this very instance of contrasting commentary above in my response... Who knows what the truth is or what the true difference in the two packs is, in the real world...?

I'd probably walk.

For what it's worth, later this year I'd like to pick up a new or nearly-new Model S Performance, which means my beloved Tessie will be put up for adoption. But at a price that reflects its value. (A new 12-volt battery was installed this week.)

View attachment 529275

PM'd you brother... Thanks you.

 

[Ostrichsak]

I completely agree with you Ostrich about the principal thing. But my choices are: find a unicorn private seller or go to the dealership that may or may not have properly cared for the car... Most often, they have not. So it's basically picking the lesser evil, if you will...?

People WAY overuse the term "unicorn" on this forum. You're looking for a well-optioned performance model S with Dual motors. That's hardly a unicorn.

You seem to think that it's not possible to find a well-cared-for private party owned car but... who do you think owned the cars that Tesla sells? Private parties.

 

[Geek190]

I'm on the same page as ostrichsak. Somebody paid $10,000 to Tesla for that ludicrous option.
They have become so unethical and greasy (I typed greedy, but decided to leave the autocorrect anyway) in how they deal with customers.

It's too bad.
I LOVE my car.
I HATE the company.

 

[HankLloydRight]

Per this post, it is possible to upgrade a P85D to have Ludicrous mode, and that upgrade would have a couple of hardware changes (quoted from Motor Trend):

The upgrade adds a couple of pieces of hardware to the P90D, including main battery pack contacts made of Inconel (a "space-grade super alloy") that allows Tesla to increase the current flow rate from 1,300 to 1,500 amps, and an advanced new fuse for the 90-kW-hr battery. This fuse has its own electronics and a tiny lithium-ion battery built into it that allows Tesla to better bridge the gap between a Model S' normal operating current and max current.

That "post" is from 2015. Tesla is no longer performing any Ludicrous upgrades for P85D or P90D.

 

[HankLloydRight]

People WAY overuse the term "unicorn" on this forum. You're looking for a well-optioned performance model S with Dual motors. That's hardly a unicorn.

Agreed! There aren't many true Tesla "unicorns". The P85 and P85+ cars with AP1 are true unicorns (estimated less than 300 made). The P85D+ is not a unicorn, Tesla made thousands of these over a 5 month period. Many of them had the Ludicrous upgrade installed, which makes the P85DL+ rare, but also not a unicorn.

 

[jgatl]

That "post" is from 2015. Tesla is no longer performing any Ludicrous upgrades for P85D or P90D.

My apologies, I meant that the 2014 P90D that @Fragger is planning to buy may have had the ludicrous upgrade completed in 2015. He mentioned that they car was badged P90DL in his first post. If Tesla did perform the upgrade, it's possible the ludicrous hardware upgrades are still on the car. Or perhaps the owner just bought a P90DL badge. That's why I recommended getting the service history so he could confirm whether or not the Ludicrous upgrade had been performed in the past.

 

[HankLloydRight]

My apologies, I meant that the 2014 P90D that @Fragger is planning to buy may have had the ludicrous upgrade completed in 2015. He mentioned that they car was badged P90DL in his first post. If Tesla did perform the upgrade, it's possible the ludicrous hardware upgrades are still on the car. Or perhaps the owner just bought a P90DL badge. That's why I recommended getting the service history so he could confirm whether or not the Ludicrous upgrade had been performed in the past.

Right, but you also suggest these options which are no longer possible:

1. request that the sales person provide a cost to upgrade the '14 P85D+ to have Ludicrous mode (guessing $5-10K) - pay that at delivery
2. Ask for the quote from option 1 to be honored later, take delivery, and upgrade once you've driven the car for a while. You may find you are happy with the performance of the P85D+.

 

[geoffmanley]

If you can swing a bit more money, this is the one I would get...

2016 Model S | Tesla

 

[Fragger]

People WAY overuse the term "unicorn" on this forum. You're looking for a well-optioned performance model S with Dual motors. That's hardly a unicorn.

You seem to think that it's not possible to find a well-cared-for private party owned car but... who do you think owned the cars that Tesla sells? Private parties.

Fair enough, Ostrich... I suppose "unicorn" was excessive, rare is appropriate. In my case, I'm falling into a real low mileage P85D+ which has been converted to P90D+ with a new MCU and screen replaced last year... My favorite color too and previous buyer got it transported to my local market where I'm avoiding that fee too. Lastly, this being my first Tesla, nice to have a two year bumper to bumper too . So forgive me... Perhaps all this equated to me as "unicorn", but that small thought of missing Ludicrous update promoted me to get opinions of folks who may have faced the same dilemmas...

I'm on the same page as ostrichsak. Somebody paid $10,000 to Tesla for that ludicrous option.
They have become so unethical and greasy (I typed greedy, but decided to leave the autocorrect anyway) in how they deal with customers.

It's too bad.
I LOVE my car.
I HATE the company.

Completely agreed! Love the cars, hating the power and policy of the manufacturer...

That "post" is from 2015. Tesla is no longer performing any Ludicrous upgrades for P85D or P90D.

Agreed! There aren't many true Tesla "unicorns". The P85 and P85+ cars with AP1 are true unicorns (estimated less than 300 made). The P85D+ is not a unicorn, Tesla made thousands of these over a 5 month period. Many of them had the Ludicrous upgrade installed, which makes the P85DL+ rare, but also not a unicorn.

Agreed on both counts, Hank. To me, you're one of the more informed folks on this forum with this specific choice. I also explored other options you suggested... For now... Those avenues have not responded to me... Hopefully that changes... ...

My apologies, I meant that the 2014 P90D that @Fragger is planning to buy may have had the ludicrous upgrade completed in 2015. He mentioned that they car was badged P90DL in his first post. If Tesla did perform the upgrade, it's possible the ludicrous hardware upgrades are still on the car. Or perhaps the owner just bought a P90DL badge. That's why I recommended getting the service history so he could confirm whether or not the Ludicrous upgrade had been performed in the past.

Jgatl, forgive me I forgot to mention... I did reach out to @dabbler, is he trying to get some service info... I'm trying on my side too...

About the badge... My thinking is... Would Tesla have removed it, if it was that erroneous? Who knows? The only thing for sure... They don't do the upgrade for the customers anymore, is my understanding...

 

[Fragger]

If you can swing a bit more money, this is the one I would get...

2016 Model S | Tesla

Thank you Geoff! That is... Too much money for my budget and desire to spend right now... Maybe my next Tesla would be closer to that configuration though... Thank you again!

 

[geoffmanley]

About the badge... My thinking is... Would Tesla have removed it, if it was that erroneous? Who knows? The only thing for sure... They don't do the upgrade for the customers anymore, is my understanding...

They would probably leave it if the prior owner changed the badge. I recall going to a Mercedes dealership a long time ago and there was a badged E500 for a great price, turned out it was a rebadged E350. And yes, they will not do ludicrous upgrades, I checked, although that was about a year ago. I doubt things have changed.

 

[Fragger]

They would probably leave it if the prior owner changed the badge. I recall going to a Mercedes dealership a long time ago and there was a badged E500 for a great price, turned out it was a rebadged E350. And yes, they will not do ludicrous upgrades, I checked, although that was about a year ago. I doubt things have changed.

You're right, my friend... Things have still not changed !

 

[Akikiki]

2015 Model S P90DL, $42,800, 49K Miles, CPO 2 yr warranty
Cheaper. In Texas