Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

MA Clean Vehicle Project - $50k QC Deployment Awards

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
This is very much like when smart phones first starting appearing, at least from a technology maturation standpoint. The first ones were very primitive, but offered something that the old flip phones simply didn't offer. Of course, after 2 years, you could get one for the same price that was 10x better. And two years after that they were 10x better again. No one at the start of this (~2006) would have predicted where we would be today, well some would have, given the usual technology ramp.

The obvious difference with charging stations is the huge cost. So looking with a crystal ball into the future makes sense before spending large amounts of taxpayer money. When Elon looked at the situation back in 2010-11 he knew that the ramp wasn't going to be where it needed to be to support charging an 85kw battery in a reasonable amount of time. So Tesla went their own way with the Supercharger network.

I suspect that what may happen is that the various charging standards will still be debated over the next several years while larger battery sized vehicles come out. When the Gen 3 vehicle debuts, the Tesla Supercharger network may be so well developed that it becomes the "de facto" medium/long range EV charging network. Only if you drive a Tesla of course. Early adopters of Leaf's and Volt's will never be able to Supercharge. Anyone looking to make use of the Supercharger network will either need to buy a Tesla, or another BEV that opts into the Supercharger network (BMW ?). Older BEV owners not able to connect to Superchargers will be looking for alternatives for longer duration trips.

The thing is though, as the more modern BEV's (S, X, G3) will be Supercharging, the older BEV's will be relegated to the older and slower chargers. Owning one of these vehicles in 2018 will be the equivalent of owning a 4 year old smart phone. As people migrate to BEV's with better ranges, the older EV's will I believe just turn into "regional commuter cars". Anyone wanting to have a vehicle that can do a 300 mile trip in a reasonable amount of time is either going to get a G3 or better car, or rent a gas vehicle if they only make the trip occasionally. Looking at it from this perspective, I agree with techmaven that starting in about 4-5 years, any installed chargers along freeways that are not actual Superchargers will start becoming obsolete, with lower and lower usage over time. At the same time, the Tesla/BMW/? Supercharger network will be expanding gangbusters. My $0.02.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out for sure.

RT
 
Love the analogy. I'd love one those top of the line electric smart phones, but not at that price point. The standard, affordable, yet primitive electric smart phone will serve. The goal is to grow a market for electric smart phones and phase out the market for gas powered smart phones. The demand for electric smart phones is weak when people are perfectly happy with their gas smart phones that are just as good and affordable too.

Given Tesla's track record, when do you think the Model 3 will really be available? 2019? 2020? 2021?

Until then, more QC will allow the market for electric smart phones to grow. That's the goal. It's worth the expenditure now, to get more people to give up gas phones.
 
The smartphone/PC cost/performance analogy has one major flaw - Moore's Law doesn't (and won't) apply to DCQC. We aren't going to see major increases in charging speeds much beyond 150kW for a long time.

It's not battery capacity that is the issue, it's a wiring issue. Getting >150kW into a car has serious limitations around safety and conductor sizing. To double that, we'd need connectors, charge cables, and wiring (in the car and below ground) capable of passing nearly 1000 amps continuous.

<15 min quick charges aren't happening for decades, and would probably require a major breakthough in high temp superconductors.
 
Good point. I'm not sure how many people's home wiring can accomodate much more than a 10 kW EVSE. What would that take, a 50 A breaker? Maybe 60 A? I've heard that CHAdeMO can be made to allow 100 kW, but I haven't seen it yet. So, for now, more 25 and 50 kW QCs will at least help to fill in the gaps between SCs, to your advantage, if you ever get the adapter.
 
Good point. I'm not sure how many people's home wiring can accomodate much more than a 10 kW EVSE. What would that take, a 50 A breaker? Maybe 60 A? I've heard that CHAdeMO can be made to allow 100 kW, but I haven't seen it yet. So, for now, more 25 and 50 kW QCs will at least help to fill in the gaps between SCs, to your advantage, if you ever get the adapter.

You need a 50A breaker for a 10kW charge (at 240v, that's 40A draw, plus the required 20% margin). A HPWC (20kW for use with a double charger on the Model S) needs a 100A breaker. Many homes have only 100A of service in total; few have an extra 100A of surplus kicking around.

Home charging above 20kW would require extraordinary planning. All the 50kW sites I know of are at commercial properties with 3-phase 480v power (which is also what the SuperChargers use).
 
The smartphone/PC cost/performance analogy has one major flaw - Moore's Law doesn't (and won't) apply to DCQC. We aren't going to see major increases in charging speeds much beyond 150kW for a long time.

It's not battery capacity that is the issue, it's a wiring issue. Getting >150kW into a car has serious limitations around safety and conductor sizing. To double that, we'd need connectors, charge cables, and wiring (in the car and below ground) capable of passing nearly 1000 amps continuous.

<15 min quick charges aren't happening for decades, and would probably require a major breakthough in high temp superconductors.

Or you could have two cables and chargers.
 
It's not battery capacity that is the issue, it's a wiring issue. Getting >150kW into a car has serious limitations around safety and conductor sizing. To double that, we'd need connectors, charge cables, and wiring (in the car and below ground) capable of passing nearly 1000 amps continuous.

<15 min quick charges aren't happening for decades, and would probably require a major breakthough in high temp superconductors.
The limit is more like 250kW rather than 150kW. This was demonstrated back in 2007 by the Phoenix SUT using an Altairnano 35kWh pack and a 250kW Aerovironment charger (~450V@550A) to charge in less than 10 minutes.
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2007/01/phoenix_motorca.html

Personally I think that is "good enough" already. For a 85kWh Model S, that's equivalent to ~650mph charging or ~110 miles of EPA range in 10 minutes.

It's when you reach the 500kW range that cables and standard connectors don't make sense. Buses are already at that point and they use robotic overhead connectors. For a car, it'll likely be a robotic connector under the floor.
http://www.plugincars.com/electric-bus-uses-rooftop-automated-fast-charging-127300.html