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Doesn't make any sense. We spend trillions - but can't spend a few million getting needed data ?

What are Republicans afraid the data will say ?

There actually was never a ban on doing gun research. The research just wasn't allowed to advocate gun control. The CDC I guess just decided to ignore the whole subject since it was low priority. The flu kills more people annually than guns.

I wonder if the reason the NRA wanted to limit the CDC from promoting gun control is BECAUSE external funding is allowed and they were worried that liberal money would pour into the CDC looking for a report that supported their agenda?

I really don't know or care too much. There's a ton of gun data collected by the justice department that anyone could do (and does) a lot of research with. The problem is that the research is always biased (in both directions).
 
It is easy to talk about gun control and put forth bills that everyone knows do not have a chance of passing, for political purposes. However, the fact is that no modern president, or possibly president ever, has done more for gun control than Trump. Others have talked about it, but did not get anything done. He has done it. And has more coming. I say this only because of all the Trump hatred on this forum.

Not to mention an assault weapons ban is not going to solve anything. The single deadliest school shooting in the U.S. was committed with two handguns.
 
I would still question whether money gifted to the CDC then becomes "government money" or if the exact language only prevents them from using that big giant blue bubble to do gun related research, but perhaps CDC actually can be funded externally for such purposes.

From the CDC:

Established by Congress as an independent, nonprofit organization, the CDC Foundation is the sole entity authorized by Congress to mobilize philanthropic partners and private-sector resources to support CDC’s critical health protection mission.

Of course, you'd still need sufficient funding. I guess someone needs to start a proper non-profit to collect funding (from gofundme or whatever means, perhaps multiple means) and then make the money a conditional gift (which I take to mean you can state this money is to be used for X, where X in this case is research on gun related stuff). That is all non-trivial to do and is still a rather large barrier to allowing gun research.

The CDC asked for $10 million to do gun violence research so the amount really isn't that much. Through the CDC foundation, the CDC isn't bound by a lot of the red tape that other government agencies are. Don't forget, the CDC doesn't just operate for the U.S. It operates for the whole world. They are fairly nibble for a government agency.

It might be possible to outside fund the research but practically it's still a relative non-starter due to the hoops that must be jumped through, and it's nonsense that gun related research is blocked in any fashion.

The CDC isn't banned from doing any gun research and never was. They are banned from using the research to promote or advocate for gun control. You could still do a lot of good research and draw a lot of conclusions without saying the only way to solve the problem is to ban guns.

Honestly if you look at what the CDC does, gun violence is so low on the radar of what they are dealing with. The CDC is our first line of defense against a pandemic. They operate on a global scale.

The justice department has done studies on gun violence and the CDC would likely use the justice departments statistics for any study they would do. The justice department has a database of every gun related incident so I can't imagine a better source of data.

I'm not sure why the NRA picked on the CDC to begin with. Perhaps it's because of the external funding and the opportunity for bias? Really don't know. Regardless, there's a ton of data publicly available and the CDC isn't the only agency capable of doing research.
 
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Every once in a while there is something in the news that is so disgusting that it makes my stomach turn. What the press has inflicted upon the boys at Covington Catholic is absolutely abhorrent. This is why the press has lost so much credibility. The fact that the press would push a story, unchecked, about children shows the hatred for anybody that shows support for Trump. This was because they were white and had on MAGA hats. Now these children have been doxxed and are receiving death threats. Their whole school is shut down for security reasons. People on here demonstrate hatred as well. All because they have separate views on issues. The Left has gone out of control. This saddens me because I considered myself to lean left in the past. In fact, I did not vote for Trump because I bought into the narrative as well. I will never make that mistake again.
 
Mass shootings don't only happen at schools. Apparently you've completely forgotten about the Vegas shooting.

I haven't forgotten about it. It doesn't make the point that handguns are just as deadly as assault weapons. And in the vegas shooting, the shooter could easily have done the same level of damage with hunting rifles. Actually he probably could have done more damage with a scoped semi-automatic rifle taking aim than indiscriminately firing into a crowd.

He killed 58 people with 1100 rounds. Not very good accuracy. When I was in the military I consistently scored 36 kills with 40 rounds WITHOUT a scope.
 
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Every once in a while there is something in the news that is so disgusting that it makes my stomach turn. What the press has inflicted upon the boys at Covington Catholic is absolutely abhorrent. This is why the press has lost so much credibility. The fact that the press would push a story, unchecked, about children shows the hatred for anybody that shows support for Trump. This was because they were white and had on MAGA hats. Now these children have been doxxed and are receiving death threats. Their whole school is shut down for security reasons. People on here demonstrate hatred as well. All because they have separate views on issues. The Left has gone out of control. This saddens me because I considered myself to lean left in the past. In fact, I did not vote for Trump because I bought into the narrative as well. I will never make that mistake again.

Yeah, I came down hard on those kids when I saw the first video. When you hear the whole story you really start to believe that the media is out to manipulate and lie.
 
I have the same reaction to news items almost every day.
It is likely the biggest contributing factor to people’s radical views. If the full video did not come out, then the news story would have tapped into the emotions and biases of their base. This news story helps expose what has been happening. Remember during the election when the news kept reporting all the hate and violence at Trump’s rallies? The reply was that there were very few incidents and the ones that did happen were a result of people being planted in the rally to specifically cause trouble. This recent incident helps shine a light on what is really happening and what has happened in the past.
 
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you know folks, those rich guys you like to hate.... but at least you are targeting rich people doing bad things instead of tarring all the rich
Sometimes rich people do good things

Climate change is also accelerating, with consequences so dire that they’re almost impossible to imagine. Grantham says he’ll devote 98 percent of his net worth, or about $1 billion, to help humans win the race.
For a billionaire, he’s comically thrifty. He and Hanne have lived in the same Beacon Hill townhouse since 1974. A rare bit of self-indulgence is his recently arrived Tesla Model 3. Colleagues tell stories of Grantham insisting on flying coach and of helping him carry luggage down into the London Tube because he didn’t want to pay for a car out to the airport. “He’s cheap, and he’s funny about it,” says Peg McGetrick, a longtime friend and a director at GMO. “He really wants to put every dime into this foundation.”

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?
 
You just made the point, you don't need to be skilled to do a lot of damage with auto/semi-auto.

You don't have to be skilled with a hunting rifle with a scope either. Especially when there's a crowd of 22,000. people.

The main difference is that with a scope and actually aiming, you're going to be a lot more accurate than just spraying. Almost every shot you take is going to be a hit. Doesn't take a lot of skill either with a crowd that size.

My point that I can hit 36 out of 40 without a scope shows that just taking the time to aim as apposed to indiscriminate spraying with an auto that is jumping all over the place is far more effective.
 
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South would have had the Gulf and Texas oil.

A lot of third world countries have had oil. It usually results in a few living it up and the rest of the country struggling to survive. The oil in Texas and the Gulf may have lasted longer if it was in a separate country.

Oil also didn't come along until the very end of the 19th century, which would have been nearly 40 years after the South split. The economy may not have survived the Industrial Revolution.


I've tried reading a few of Turtledove's books and there is something often off with his premises that don't quite work for me.

In any case, it is interesting to speculate what may have happened if the South did split off any become a separate country. Another thing from American Nations is that New York city was making noises of becoming an independent city state when the South split. The start of the Civil War cemented them as part of the US.

Mass shootings don't only happen at schools. Apparently you've completely forgotten about the Vegas shooting.

What people use is a mixed bag:
Mass shootings in the United States - Wikipedia

In the Las Vegas shooting there were only 58 killed by the perp, but 480 were hit by gunfire and 910 were injured or killed in some way. Firing 1100 rounds fully automatically and hitting 480 (I believe some people were hit multiple times), is about a 50% hit rate.

Overall mass shootings are a mixed bag based on weapon type. Hand guns are easy to conceal so shooters can get closer to their victims. Some mass shootings with hand guns were done with large magazine weapons. The Gabby Giffords shooting started at point blank range and the carnage was so bad because the perp had a large magazine on his hand gun. He was stopped when he had to reload.

Every once in a while there is something in the news that is so disgusting that it makes my stomach turn. What the press has inflicted upon the boys at Covington Catholic is absolutely abhorrent. This is why the press has lost so much credibility. The fact that the press would push a story, unchecked, about children shows the hatred for anybody that shows support for Trump. This was because they were white and had on MAGA hats. Now these children have been doxxed and are receiving death threats. Their whole school is shut down for security reasons. People on here demonstrate hatred as well. All because they have separate views on issues. The Left has gone out of control. This saddens me because I considered myself to lean left in the past. In fact, I did not vote for Trump because I bought into the narrative as well. I will never make that mistake again.

Any story that seems to fit a narrative on first blush has a possibility of becoming big news before the truth comes out. Right wing pranksters have played on this to plant fake stories and have managed to get some to run before discrediting them. Then the rest of the right points to these incidents and say "see, everything they say is a lie!" It's a way to help perpetuate the false equivalency meme.

Sometimes these stories evolve on their own, which appears to be the case here.

Humans have a tendency to cook up theories and then find data to support the theories. We've been doing it since before time began. When someone comes along who just follows the facts where ever they lead, they usually catch a lot of flak from the majority who are cherry picking. This has happened with most major scientific discoveries, some major technological advancements (it's going on with the EV industry today), and it happens in politics.

When I initially saw the story, my first thought was not much. Another example of a Trump supporter behaving badly. So what? It's like a story about the weather being colder in winter. And it turns out the whole situation started with some nuts out on the fringe the other way verbally assaulting the MAGA hat wearers.

I would not be surprised to find the African-Americans who started the whole thing were not some ultra-fringe group with 3 members like the "New Black Panthers" who showed up near a polling place in Pennsylvania on election day a few years back. Fox News made them out to be a massive organization, but it turned out to be a handful of guys in one city with no organization. There are music bands playing small clubs that are bigger.

The thing with any group of people, any attribute you give to the whole group is going to be proven wrong. Even basic things like gender are proving to be less black and white that originally thought. There are jerks who are pro-Trump and jerks who are anti-Trump. Anecdotally, it looks to me like there are more pro-Trump jerks than anti-Trump, but that's based on two things: observing the news over the last 3 years, and what I know about human nature.

Trump is a classic playground bully type. We probably all went to school with at least one kid who was leader of the school bully group. In some places these bullies might have been violent, in others they may have just taunted. But one thing is pretty constant, these alpha-bullies tend to draw beta bullies into their orbit and little else. There are some who go along with the alpha bully to prevent becoming victims, but they mostly just try to keep their head down.

The active beta bullies usually have some reason to be angry and like to be able to take it out somewhere, so they participate in whatever the alpha gets up to.

Sometimes the targets of bullying strike back. Sometimes the victims organize too. Sometimes there are competing bullies. There are a lot of dynamics to these things, but most fit into a set of patterns.

Trump's "pack" is, by human nature, going to include some angry people who want to strike out and the alpha gives them permission and targets. The victims are also going to do things to fight back.

But just because the initial narrative of one news story turns out to be false is a distraction from the bigger story. Conflict is happening over American politics. However that plays out, it isn't really news, it's a sidebar story.

Whenever these sorts of stories happen, I get concerned that the opponents are going to manage to use the backlash to achieve their aims. That was my biggest concern on 9/11/2001 and it mostly played out as I predicted with draconian surveillance laws passed, stupid security checks that do little, and perpetual wars in far flung places that nobody can figure out how to end without creating worse disasters.

Ignore the light show and look behind the curtain. That's the real problem.
 
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Here's something stomach turning


Andrew Wortman on Twitter
Another video with no context, but I’ll admit that child should not have said that. Sounds like the sense of humor of a teenager. Those children overall behaved extremely well considering the circumstances.

Full disclosure: I know that school and community fairly well. I see some of those Twitter comments saying hateful things and they could not be further from the truth.
 
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