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Market politics

Discussion in 'TSLA Investor Discussions' started by Lessmog, Feb 3, 2018.

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  1. neroden

    neroden Model S Owner and Frustrated Tesla Fan

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    .... except the pre-Civil-War cycles when the slavers were abusing the anti-slavery factions. You remember how that ended. The anti-slavery factions radicalized, the slavers started a war, the slavers lost.

    How?

    I mean, they could officially require it, but *what do you do if they don't follow it*? Congress needs to pass a law to allow removal of judges who violate the Code of Conduct, without the Senate-based impeachment process. That would be Constitutional. If SCOTUS claimed it wasn't constitutional, remove 'em and put in a new SCOTUS who will agree.

    The old criminal. Why od you think he made that baseless claim?

    That's not just the Code of Conduct.

    The avoidance of conflict of interest and the avoidance of the appearance of conflict of interest is a core principle of the judiciary under English common law, dating back hundreds of years. You're simply not a legitimate judge if you appear biased and fail to recuse yourself.

    That's the important part. How do you force SCOTUS to follow the process and remove 'em?

    There are no originalists. All the so-called originalists are fakers who ignore the text, ignore original intent, and ignore original meaning whenever it suits them. They happily ignore the very, very clear intent and original meaning of the Ninth Amendment for instance -- the Republican judges HATE the Ninth Amendment.

    The Ninth Amendment says outright "People have rights that aren't listed here, and judges are supposed to protect those rights just as much as the listed rights". The Goldberg concurrence in Griswold v. Connecticut points to the Ninth Amendment as the reason why contraceptive access is a right. The Republican judges *hate* that, consistently and uniformly.

    They twist themselves into pretzels to AVOID respecting the text and the original intent of the Ninth Amendment -- otherwise they'd be ordering everyone released from Guantanamo, ordering the closure of the concentration camps which Trump is putting refugees in, and legalizing marijuana.

    Yeah, even the right-wingers aren't all pro-dictatorship. I think most of them recognize that the Supreme Court is an irrelevance in a dictatorship and care about their own importance.

    Technically, it's "the right of the people", as a collective group. It is not an individual right. It is also not a right reserved to the national or state governments.

    I happen to know the original understanding of the 2nd amendment -- I studied it. And its direct ancestor in the English Bill of Rights. Both were specifically for local city and neighborhood-run militias, for the purpose of protecting localities from abuses committed by a larger government such as a state or national government.

    In other words, it was to protect the Black Panthers. The founders of the Black Panthers knew their history and their Constitution. Fat lot of good it did them; the courts prioiritized racism over originalism.

    The question is, how do you make them? I guess Congress could subject them to the Code, subject them to the removal provisions, and add a provision that the Supreme Court does not have jurisdiction to rule on the Constitutionality of that Act. (Congress can actually strip jurisdiction from the Supreme Court, it's explicitly provided for in the Constitution, and they'd have to in this case because otherwise the Supreme Court, being selfish, would rule it unconstitutional.)
     
  2. wdolson

    wdolson Supporting Member

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    The Senate has removed people by impeachment. The most recent was a lower court judge in 2010 who was removed. There was another who resigned just before he was convicted in 2009. But high level impeachment is very difficult.

    I am extremely wary of a constitutional convention because the Koch brothers have really been pushing for one. They have their agenda lined up and are ready to push it through.
     
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  3. neroden

    neroden Model S Owner and Frustrated Tesla Fan

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    Well, never happened with Trump. Andrew Jackson, of course, committed genocide in open defiance of SCOTUS and got away with it. I think we're all a little afraid of that scenario.

    Oh, they have been. (English history has more examples than US history.) They need to be. It's time for them to be locked up. Contempt of Congress is a better charge though... Barr and Mnuchin have commited the most clear and blatant contempt of Congress in US history and need to be imprisoned in the Congressional jail until they comply with the subpoenas. The House is slow-walkiing this process because it's full of cowards, which is a problem.

    About a third of the headlines on this case are talking about "Trump being helped by conservative judges", which tells you the level of respect for the judicial system at this point. Remember that this case is being brought by STATE GOVERNMENTS.

    We are already in a Constitutional crisis; several. The federal judicial system has failed, and the Presidency has failed, and the Senate has failed spectacularly. The House is seriously weakened by gerrymandering.

    The really big Constitutional crisis happens when the state governments declare the federal government actions invalid. We are extremely close to that point; people for some reason haven't noticed. Without stating it in exactly those terms, several states have nullified federal drug law, and nobody seems to have noticed what that means. State laws compelling non-cooperation of state and local officials with ICE are passing all over the place, and while the feds are sort of trying to fight that, they can't; they don't have the manpower. The Second Nullification Crisis is happening right now and the states are winning.
     
  4. Mader Levap

    Mader Levap Member

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    Nah. I was using that word colloquially.

    Ahistoric claim that revolutionary army took over airports in 1775. I think there are bigger problems with Trump than making silly mistakes like this.
     
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  5. wdolson

    wdolson Supporting Member

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    He's talked like that for years. The airport thing is pretty outrageous, but he's gotten facts wildly wrong before. He might also have dementia on top of everything else.

    I read an article about Trump's last physical report by someone who knows a lot about the pharmaceuticals out there. Trump is taking a drug that I believe is a heart medication, but is also used off label to slow down dementia. It has very toxic side effects on the liver and is not recommended for long term use and is only recommended in small doses and is contraindicated for people over 70. Trump takes the maximum dose every day. It's almost certainly trashing his liver. The article said Trump's health report doesn't say why he's taking it, but any reason he is taking it is not good.

    His mind may be going, or his heart, or both, and he's destroying his liver in the process.
     
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  6. winfield100

    winfield100 Active Member

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    So Pence or Pelosi will serve out his term?
     
  7. wdolson

    wdolson Supporting Member

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    I have had a feeling Trump may not be in office November 2020. Of course Pence would be the most likely person in the oval office at that point, but who knows. Lots of things that have never happened before have happened.
     
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  8. S'toon

    S'toon Knows where his towel is

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    I heard one pundit hypothesize that Trump'll pull out next year due to "health reasons," and beg the GOP to endorse Ivanka to be the candidate in his stead.
     
  9. wdolson

    wdolson Supporting Member

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    When Trump is out for one reason or another, I think the Republican party will rip itself apart. Trump is holding the coalition together basically because he managed to win the campaign nobody thought he could win. Once he's out of the picture the neocons, social conservatives, business conservatives, and libertarians will all try to grab the reigns of power.

    There will be some who want to follow Trump's wishes, but there will be many who want something different. As far as voluntarily stepping down for health reasons, I don't see that happening. Trump will never admit any kind of weakness, but if he has a debilitating stroke or something like that, he might be forced out.
     
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  10. neroden

    neroden Model S Owner and Frustrated Tesla Fan

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    According to various newspaper and magazine reports, people who've known Trump since the 1960s/1970s/1980s say he's changed. Specifically, they seem to think he's showing signs of dementia. (It seems that he always had malignant narcissism, but he used to be more in touch with reality.)

    Oh my. Thanks for the new information.
     
  11. neroden

    neroden Model S Owner and Frustrated Tesla Fan

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    She won't take the job, doesn't want it.
     
  12. neroden

    neroden Model S Owner and Frustrated Tesla Fan

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    So, on other topics: after all kinds of nonsense, Trump has finally been convinced to give up on his scheme to put a citizenship question on the census for the purpose of suppressing the non-white and poor vote. Losing the Supreme Court and lower court cases didn't stop him, but apparently someone in the administration managed to pressure him to stop defying the courts.

    So the census is going to be OK. That's important. On this case, Roberts ruled correctly, and the other four right-wingers were just pure crooks.

    This may get the DOJ lawyers who dropped out of the case off the hook. Rumor is that they quit because the case was unwinnable and unethical, but the judge was going to force them to give affadavits explaining why they were quitting, which would have been very useful in future cases against Trump. Trump dropping the whole case probably prevents the affadavits.
     
  13. S'toon

    S'toon Knows where his towel is

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    He's not quite giving up. He's just changing tactics.
    Full article at:
    Harvard Law’s Laurence Tribe warns the census fight isn’t over: Here’s the new way Trump wants to rig elections for a decade

    Also:
    Full article at:
    Trump directs his administration to collect citizenship data another way, after census effort fails
     
  14. wdolson

    wdolson Supporting Member

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    Basically the lawyers on the case were going to go into court and tell the judge, "we don't know any way to go forward here without breaking the law" and Barr couldn't have that. When he was unable to replace the legal team, that's when the administration folded.

    They are now talking about cooking the books after the census by apportioning districts based on citizenship instead of population, but that will happen after the census is done in 2021, which will be after the election. Chances are the president in 2021 will be Democrat and will apportion districts by the criteria that has always been used, so the whole thing will be moot as long as the Republicans lose.

    States will try to play games with gerrymandering, which is why the down ballot races are so important.
     
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  15. bhtooefr

    bhtooefr Member

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    From main a few days ago:

    We haven't gotten rid of slavery - in fact, the 13th Amendment explicitly allows it as a punishment for a crime, and criminalizing things like homelessness and unemployment in the wake of the Civil War was meant to keep the supply of slaves up. (This is actually part of why our prison system is the way it is today.)
     
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  16. EVNow

    EVNow Well-Known Member

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    Well, that's a separate story.
     
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  17. EVNow

    EVNow Well-Known Member

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    "pundits" (I hate using the term for TV know-nothings, one of the cultural misappropriations) have been fantasizing about this for a long time. Even before the '16 elections, that he will drop out etc. I can't think of any other person who is going to cling to power (and attention and adulation of fans) as long as he can.
     
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  18. neroden

    neroden Model S Owner and Frustrated Tesla Fan

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    The ghostwriter of _The Art of The Deal_ originally thought that Trump would resign and declare victory ("I'm too good for the Presidency"), but has now decided that Trump isn't smart enough to do that.

    Oy.
     
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  19. wdolson

    wdolson Supporting Member

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    There were rumors early on that Trump was trying to figure out how to resign and not look like a "loser". He's now got his ego so wrapped up in the job he doesn't want to leave.

    There is something up with Mike Pence. He's got the look of someone on lots of Prozac or disassociating in a big way. His performance at the ICE detention facilities was a good example. He was obviously there and is in the video shot, but when asked about it the next day he declared it all fake. He also was wandering around the facilities like a zombie while everyone else with him was deeply shocked at what they saw.

    There are also stories that have come out that when the Access Hollywood tape came out a couple of weeks before the election Pence's wife told him to withdraw from the ticket and when he doesn't she threatened to leave him and at minimum she refuses to be anywhere near Trump. I think being around Trump for the last 2 1/2 years has broken Pence. I think he's realizing he made a devil's bargain and it was a very bad one for him. He might be on some kind of medication to keep him from thinking about it.

    Trump and the Republicans in general don't understand how the Democrats work. Since Reagan the Republicans have worked on a military model. There may be a bit of back and forth about who the next leader will be, but when the leader is established, everyone falls in line behind them.

    The Democrats have more of a large Italian family model. To an outsider it looks like there are many feuds going on and there are loud disagreements, but when push comes to shove, the family pulls together. Right now they are more united in purpose than ever.

    I read an article by a reporter who had gone to the Netroots convention this year. He asked the crowd who supported which candidate and the two most popular were Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders with some support for other candidates, except Biden. There was not a single person who supported Biden, but when asked if they would support Biden if he was the nominee, everyone said "yes!", though most said they wanted a progressive VP choice. The slogan everyone was saying was "vote blue, no matter who!"

    Trump has united the Democrats more profoundly than anything in recent history and even many right of center voters are thinking blue next year. I hope it's enough to flip the Senate. It does look like McConnell has a serious opponent, she's a retired Lt Col Marine and fighter pilot and a moderate Republican. A good combination for Kentucky. McConnell has the lowest approval rating in his home state of any sitting Senator. But there are other seats that will be easier to pick off.
     
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  20. HG Wells

    HG Wells Member

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    When it comes to our president, George Orwell was an optimist.
     
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