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Macros dropping on the reports of impeachment move by the Dems?
First of all, removing Trump and his cronies would be positive for Tesla, so doesn't make sense. Secondly, I'll take a temporary halving of the value of my shares to get rid of that OI.
Get on with it!
First of all, removing Trump and his cronies would be positive for Tesla, so doesn't make sense. Secondly, I'll take a temporary halving of the value of my shares to get rid of that OI.
Get on with it!
Are the only choices the binary of abandoning the oaths they took to defend the people and constitution
of the United States and let Trump get away with murder or impeaching and having the Senate fail to convict
him, giving a fig leaf of exoneration? I hope House leaders will give full consideration to a third option proposed
by Harvard constitutional scholar Lawrence Tribe. That the House conduct an impeachment inquiry that ends with a verdict but no
referral to the Senate for trial. Tribe argues that the investigation be designed to make this only an option to take
if what comes out during the investigation is not sufficient to shame enough Senate Republicans into voting to convict.
"..the House, unlike any grand jury, can conduct an impeachment inquiry that ends with a verdict and not just a referral to the Senate for trial - an inquiry in which the target is afforded an opportunity to participate and mount a full defense."
Laurence H. Tribe: Impeach Trump, but don’t necessarily try him in Senate
"The point would not be to take old-school, House impeachment leading to possible Senate removal off the table at the outset. Instead, the idea would be to build into the very design of this particular inquiry an offramp that would make bypassing the Senate an option while also nourishing the hope that a public fully educated about what this president did would make even a Senate beholden to this president and manifestly lacking in political courage willing to bite the bullet and remove him."
Chicago Tribune - this afternoon:
Pelosi to announce beginning of impeachment process, source says, as Trump tweets he will release Ukraine phone call transcript
U.S. Sen. Dick Durbin urges House to move toward impeachment of President Trump: 'I think this may be the straw that broke the camel’s back’
Pelosi to announce beginning of impeachment process, source says, as Trump tweets he will release Ukraine phone call transcript
U.S. Sen. Dick Durbin urges House to move toward impeachment of President Trump: 'I think this may be the straw that broke the camel’s back’
Actually, thanks to Pelosi gaining some courage it has become a fabulous day!Today sucked.
Fact Checking
Well-Known Member
Pelosi's reluctance to impeach had nothing to do with lack of courage: it was cool-headed political calculation to avoid a damaging debacle of not having enough votes from Democratic representatives to impeach Trump.
Trump clearly knows how to destroy evidence, so the impeachment inquiry might not have brought much extra evidence, and might have helped his reelection campaign by mobilizing Republicans.
But now that Trump and Giuliani admitted to Trump blackmailing a foreign government, offering to bribe them with $400m of taxpayer money if in exchange they started a bogus investigation into the son of one of his biggest political rivals, creating a cloud of suspicion over Biden's election campaign?
Those are multiple felonies, and Pelosi pounced.
And we don't even know the contents of the whistleblower report, which might contain new bombshells as well, and which is being hidden in blatant violation of the law.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Not just Bill Clinton 2.0 - but if Joe Biden wins the nomination, '20 election will be Hillary-vs-Trump 2.0. Trump will say Biden is corrupt and asked Ukraine to fire the AG who was looking into Hunter Biden payments. I'm sure Trump will actually enjoy this impeachment and will fully utilize it to mobilize his base in '20. I won't be surprised if he wins again if Dems nominate Joe Biden.
Hunter is a very special liability for Joe Biden - and has done a lot of cringe worthy things.
Will Hunter Biden Jeopardize His Father’s Campaign?
Ukraine Likely to Reopen Probe of Hunter Biden Firm: Sources
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Biden has his issues but he doesn't inspire the same hatred that Clinton did.
Agreed. But bottom line for me, I would take a bet on Bernie's health over Biden, and Warren over both on popularity. The Goliath in the room is the woman's vote. After the fiasco of 2016, leaders of the wave, if any, will be women voting.
I saw that today. Food for thought, but Biden remains leader in most polls. The article doesn't cover the mix per state and that makes a difference. The electorate in Iowa is different from California or Alabama.
The unofficial word from the insiders in the House is that Pelosi was giving the swing district members of the caucus cover until they felt safe enough to commit. When a fairly significant number from this group came forward yesterday she didn't need to cover them anymore.
I think Biden was laying low so he didn't look like a guilty party protesting too much. By waiting he looked like someone who was not only innocent, but the accusations were too ridiculous to bother defending. In his statement he focused on what this was doing to the country, not him.
The difference is that the Clinton impeachment was on one fairly thin charge that did not have a real impact on his job as president or the country. Lawyers have also pointed out that when he was asked about having sexual relations he had gotten a definition of that from the judge before the definition and within the definition provided, he did not lie. The House also rammed through the impeachment in the lame duck session after they lost control of the House.
This time the Democrats are making sure they make an air tight case of real crimes that did actual damage to the country before pulling the trigger on an impeachment vote. That puts Republicans in the Senate in a much more precarious position than Senators in 1998. In 1998 it was going to be 2 years before anybody faced reelection and the charges were so weak it was easy to justify voting no.
This time it will be politically more perilous for Republicans to vote to acquit both because of the timing (heading into an election year) and the mountain of evidence against Trump. If McConnell blocks it from ever happening, his reelection campaign will all be about how he protects criminals from justice. Moscow Mitch has already took hold, it will become a household word by next November if he refuses to hold the trial.
Hillary went into the 2016 election with memes out there that she was shady. Biden might be taggable as an Alzheimer's patient and many can bring up issue with many of his past legislative stands, but his record has never put him in the spotlight for any crimes. I just Googled "crimes linked to Biden" and every link that comes up is about his legislative record on crime and his current policy positions. Do the same for Hillary Clinton and you get a zillion conspiracy sites.
Not that I think Hillary did any of those crimes but googling can give you a feel of the zeitgeist on a candidate. Hunter Biden might be a little shadier and he could be a liability.
Just feeling the winds blowing in the US right now, Trump may have finally crossed the line that will get the Republicans in the Senate to flip on him. McConnell agreed to a unanimous consent vote today for the Senate to demand the whistle blower report. That would be no big deal in a normal world, but it's a big move on his part.
I've been saying all along there is a possibility Trump may not be president in November 2020. I think those odds went up a bit. Trump's history is he puts up a tough front right up until he folds and runs. That's what he's done on almost every lawsuit he's lost. He's never been facing criminal charges before, but now they are coming at him from every angle. Impeachment isn't criminal, but once removed he will have no protection unless Pence decides to pardon him. Even if Pence's DOJ doesn't investigate, the next president can indict.
I suspect if the heat gets too much and things look untenable, Trump will come up with an excuse for an overseas trip and will defect to Russia.
My SO was telling me about a focus group on Democratic women that was done recently. Many thing Warren is fine, but are concerned Warren will turn off men like Clinton did, so they are leaning towards a man this time. Many African Americans are not on board with Harris or Booker for the same reason. They would like to see another African American president, but they think Obama was too much for too many white people.
RobStark
Well-Known Member
You do understand that Trump is never going to be removed by Congress?
You need 67 votes in the Senate to convict on impeachment.
This is a dog and pony show. If it every gets to the Senate their will be a vote within a week and conviction won't sniff 60 votes.
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
Off Shore
Off Topic Member
Keep dreaming. Even without conviction and removal, impeachment allows the full story to be officially documented. And don't discount the possibility that emough republican senators will turn on him to actually take him out. (Then we get to deal with President Pence).You sure know how to spoil a good party.
Now we can't even dream...
That's exactly what they said during Nixon's Watergate. Republican majority in the senate. But look what happened. Once the evidence came out, the republicans informed Nixon they would impeach and so he resigned. It is quite possible that as the truth becomes better known, the Republicans in congress will be like rats jumping the ship.
RobStark
Well-Known Member
No, that is not exactly what they said during Watergate.
These are heavily partisan times.
The Democrat base wants Trump impeached and convicted without hearing the facts first.
The Republican base wants Trump exonerated without hearing the facts first.
The Center of American voters was highly persuadable in the 70's, they moved heavily depending on the state of the economy.
Not so today. Based on unemployment and inflation rates Trump should be getting 60% approval ratings. He gets 43% of adults and 50% of likely voters. This is not the 1970s.
Woe be to any Senator from a Trump State that votes to convict.
Edit Also politicians from the political class knew going in and accepted the rules of the game. You resigned before accepting the disgrace of impeachment. Trump will go full Nuclear during an impeachment process.
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Carl Raymond
Active Member
Interesting what people are reading in the Guardian today (Australian edition). I've never seen it that polarised.
Just a question. Is Warren more likeable than Hillary? I'm coming to believe that is the real key to who wins elections.
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