If you don't have the nerve to answer this simple yes or no question then fine. It's an experiment about the media and perceptions.
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Most of us, I believe.
If I remember correctly, Native Americans get attacked by police at the highest rate of all.
Native Americans: The forgotten minority in police shootings - CNN
Yep.
As some have said, corrupt police were always unjustifiably attacking poor black and Native people, but in recent decades they've started doing it to everyone. (Not something which would surprise any reform advocate from 1820 in England.) Police reform is another issue where too many layers of government aren't doing what people demand. Some local governments are responding, and there have always been some good police, but too few are.
I should note that I am from the county which had the biggest police evidence-faking / frame-up scandal uncovered in the 20th century. There were undoubtedly worse, but the NY State Police Troop C scandal was the worst to be *uncovered*. Our local juries will not convict people of fake charges like "resisting arrest"; and our local departments have been firing and arresting local police for misbehavior pretty aggressively lately. Unfortunately, I know this mostly just means the corrupt cops avoid this area and go to other jursidictions, but again, there's a reason I like being on the right geographical side of this sort of sorting effect.
And Tariff Man has abandoned the Mexican tariff insanity, presumably under pressure.
Trump says tariffs on Mexican imports are 'indefinitely suspended' after reaching deal - CNNPolitics
Sounds like he agreed to some of Mexico's demands regarding funding Central American humanitarian programs. We'll see if he reneges.
Trump says tariffs on Mexican imports are 'indefinitely suspended' after reaching deal - CNNPolitics
Sounds like he agreed to some of Mexico's demands regarding funding Central American humanitarian programs. We'll see if he reneges.
Thank you.
Source? not re native Americans but the question. Ideally post the tabulated stats which are widely available and consistent. Surely you have fact checked this already.
Regarding killings, CDC data!!! Look at the graph in the CNN article, it has citations.
Regarding "most of us know", this thread has a pretty small number of regular contributors. I know that I knew that, and so did Intl Professor, and wdolson, and JRP3, and frankly I think 4 of us is a majority of the regular thread contributors! I'm pretty sure several of the others knew too.
I know the regular contributors to this thread are not typical even of the rest of this forum, of course.
According to this, leaving aside, temporarily, further analysis, are more African Americans than white Americans shot by police?
https://www.theroot.com/here-s-how-many-people-police-killed-in-2018-1831469528
The Root - Black news,opinions, politics and culture
I chose this source for its position in the bias spectrum.. The same data is all over the internet. Originally attributed to the FBI.
https://www.theroot.com/here-s-how-many-people-police-killed-in-2018-1831469528
The Root - Black news,opinions, politics and culture
I chose this source for its position in the bias spectrum.. The same data is all over the internet. Originally attributed to the FBI.
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Elaboration and response to jrp et alii.
I hadn't thought of making sure one of my two favorites, Warren and Sanders are not both on the ticket as one of them should remain in the Senate. Thanks, that fits well with my next comment which riles some of you. I am old and worry about the ticket with Biden and Sanders on it who are likely in good health but one really never knows. With a good V.P. once elected, the problem is not so severe, but, here's where God forgive usually goes, what if something happens during the campaign? I give Bernie a slight edge here. Biden has recovered from brain surgery, if I remember correctly, and looks in better health than Bernie—very telegenic. Whereas, Bernie was a long distance runner, has survived all the stresses and more during the 2016 campaign. Give me a grizzled old buzzard rather than TV material.
Who knows what would have happened had Hillary talked more about her program during the campaign. I heard her say time and again, "take a look at my website where the detailed plan is." I never looked and I'm about as partisan as anyone. Warren, in contrast, every time she gets any question she talks about ineguality and elaborates a plan which makes sense. And she has lots of plans. Even on sticky questions like the Hyde amendment she provided a clear statement about how it affects women more than men, and the poor in particular. Witness one for her and small credit for Biden. He copied her response. That's a fact.
Some time ago I suggested we had to have a woman on the ticket, especially at the top after Hillary's opportunity was stolen on top of her own baggage. All the women have an advantage on the abortion issue, and with what the Reeps are doing at the state level and a stacked court on the subject, women voters need as much hope for victory as any segment, and they represent a majority in any other segment. Women have arrived and its about time.
I don't want to cast stones at other women running. None really have the preparation on policy that Warren does. I like Amy Klobachar who comes across as a kindly, but young grandmotherly type. I trust her to do the right thing. Harris, I'm not sure about.
With Bernie remaindered to the Senate, I really like Mayor Pete. He's as articulate as anyone I've heard about in politics. Mario Cuomo was really impressive as an orator. So far I've only seen Buttigieg in one on one situations and interviews. He's very well prepared, probably the smartest guy we've seen, but not uppity or snooty about it, and works in practical examples based on his concrete experience, as mayor or in the military. When he has to qualify something he does so in an aside, like a (mention an aspect of it) then close and back to the main. He's a real word dancer without the hypocrisy of Barr, for example. Also, he has first class business experience. McKenzie (sp?) ain't no small spuds. I'm aware of his vulnerability because of the police chief embroglio.
Fire away.
According to this, leaving aside, temporarily, further analysis, are more African Americans than white Americans shot by police?
https://www.theroot.com/here-s-how-many-people-police-killed-in-2018-1831469528
The Root - Black news,opinions, politics and culture
I chose this source for its position in the bias spectrum.. The same data is all over the internet. Originally attributed to the FBI.
Off the cuff, given white's are about half the population and black's 11 percent, weighted by population blacks are 2.5 times likely to be shot by the police. Is that correct?
That is correct. But before diving into it I'd like you to consider the original question whether you thought that there were far more African Americans than white Americans shot by police.
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I'm honored to discuss with you four. Thank you for engaging with me in discussion.
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On the issue of police shooting's....it is interesting to look at the makeup of police force's nationwide.
Police officers | Data USA
Poverty is probably the number one reason for police interaction.
https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/visualizations/2018/demo/p60-263/figure1.pdf
Since people of color are more likely to be poor and using the "broken window" policing policy you end up with more police interaction with people of color.
The number one change that would stop many shooting's would be an end to the insane "war on drug's" the US has waged for over 100 years.
Home
This is a great read on this subject.
Police officers | Data USA
Poverty is probably the number one reason for police interaction.
https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/visualizations/2018/demo/p60-263/figure1.pdf
Since people of color are more likely to be poor and using the "broken window" policing policy you end up with more police interaction with people of color.
The number one change that would stop many shooting's would be an end to the insane "war on drug's" the US has waged for over 100 years.
Home
This is a great read on this subject.
I think most if not all the people who regularly participate in this thread get their news from centrist or left leaning news sources. Those who do consume conservative news sources only do so to gather information on what they're talking about rather than taking it as gospel. The centrist and left leaning news have reported quite a bit about the over abundance of police shootings as well as police profiling of people of color, especially African Americans.
While Fox News like to paint Colin Kapernick as un-American for kneeling during the national anthem and Donald Trump made a lot of political hay about it, those who paid attention to the real news knew why he was doing it and most respected him for it.
I rarely go to sporting events, but my SO's law partner was a hockey player in college and planned to go pro until an injury made him rethink his career plans. He had season tickets to the Portland hockey team and we'd go with him once or twice a year. I think he suspected that my SO and/or I would sit out the national anthem and hasn't invited us to any hockey games since the Kapernick thing. I planned to sit through the US national anthem and stand for the Canadian anthem. (He's also only going to a few games a year now. I think other things in life are pulling him away from hockey.)
I think @JRP3 may have been suspicious of the question because it was a bit like walking in on a group of religious scholars and asking if they knew the pope was Catholic. It sounds too much like either a joke or a setup for something.
According to this, leaving aside, temporarily, further analysis, are more African Americans than white Americans shot by police?
https://www.theroot.com/here-s-how-many-people-police-killed-in-2018-1831469528
The Root - Black news,opinions, politics and culture
I chose this source for its position in the bias spectrum.. The same data is all over the internet. Originally attributed to the FBI.
The numbers about Native Americans may have been per capita. The Native American population is a fair bit smaller than the African American population. The graph is misleading because whites are a larger population. I know they clarified in the article.
It's just like there are more white people living under the poverty line than any other ethnic group, but per capita African Americans are disproportionately among the poor.
Police harassing minorities has been a chronic problem in this country for some time. My SO is Hispanic, but "passes" with natural red hair and blond skin (like many northern Europeans), though she tans easily. Her father looked very native (he often got asked what tribe he was from) and her cousins look very Hispanic. Her cousins have been hassled by the cops many times, in San Jose, CA which has a very large middle class Hispanic population. Many of her cousins have served in city government over the years.
Neil DeGrasse Tyson doesn't talk about ethnic issues much, but he once told a story of going to a sub-group at a Physicists convention where everyone told their stories of police harassment. He said what they all had in common was they were African American. He related his own story when he got hassled by the police for driving too nice a car, with his entire family, coming home from his in-laws house late at night.
Since 9/11 the Homeland Security pushed police forces to essentially militarize. The Bush administration made tons of money available for new police equipment which in many cases were military weapons. But because they were Republicans, an inordinate share of the hardware went to police forces that were probably never going to have to deal with a terrorist incident. With a few exceptions, police forces around the country were put on more of a "them vs us" mindset and it infected the cops on the beat. Instead of feeling like they were part of the population they were there to protect, the mindset was more like a prison guard, keeping the "hoards" of bad guys at bay.
Because police aren't paid very well anymore, there is also a shortage of trained police. The big city police officers who are too out of control get encouraged to quit, or get fired and then go off to work for smaller police forces in other parts of the country. In these smaller police forces they tend to look the other way with bad behavior because they can't afford anybody else. The cop who shot Tamir Rice in Cleveland had been let go from another police department because they determined he was too emotionally unstable.
I know ethnic profiling happens, but I struggle to grok it. I grew up in a part of Los Angeles so mixed I didn't go to a school that was more than about 15 or 20% white before college. And a number of the "white" kids were Armenians. The areas was mostly Asian and Hispanic, not a lot of African Americans, but the mix was there. I grew up not really seeing color. There were cultural differences, some of my friends were Buddhist for example, but ultimately once you get to know them, people are people.
I have run into racists. I first really encountered them when I lived in Bakersfield with my sister for a while after high school. I had literally lived my entire life surrounded by Mexicans and never heard the slur "beaner" until I lived in Bakersfield. Bakersfield is rural California which is a different culture from Los Angeles and I found it a bit of a shock.
When Barack Obama ran for president, I sent money to a candidate for the first time. I measured him for who he was and thought he was a better choice than Hillary Clinton. The two were nearly identical on the issues, but I thought he was temperamentally better suited. I was dismayed at the level of prejudice he faced and it enabled the Republicans to obstruct his presidency at every turn.
The Republican slime machine tries to gin up whatever they can on prominent Democrats. With Bill Clinton it was his infidelity and the fact that Hillary Clinton's first behavior when surprised is to behave like she's guilty, even when she's innocent. With Obama they hit on racism after several tries at other things. They have thrown a number of things against the wall with Occassio-Cortez but so far nothing has stuck.
The problem is they opened Pandora's Box on racism and cranked it to 11 to trash Obama. Now we have a president who openly uses it to crank up his base. The Charlotte tiki torch racist thing didn't go so well so they have cranked back the public demonstrations, but the troglodytes haven't shut up.
Rick Wilson used to be a Republican strategist and he has said in recent months that he always knew there were some stone cold racists in the Republican party, but he thought they were a small minority and he refused to have anything to do with the open racists. He's come to realize now he's on the outside looking in that the racist problem in the party was much worse than he thought.
The war on drugs is insane and needs to end. Prohibition of alcohol ended because a commission of anti-alcohol advocates commissioned by Hoover determined that prohibiting something legally does not work and cannot be made to work. Yet we continue to try and stop it, fueling a massive black market.
The money in the illegal drug trade is staggering. One of my SO's friends knew some Hells Angels guys in California who were in the pot business back in the 70s and 80s. They took in so much cash they "counted" it by weighing 33 gallon trash bags of it and estimating.
Her ex was a drug and alcohol counselor in east Portland for a while and the program he was working for required people document how much money they spent on their habit. Looking over the accounts he said that estimating that 25% got caught, which is way more than reality, you get to the scale of semis full of cash pretty quickly.
All that black market fuels other crimes. Legalize the drugs and bring it all above ground and most of the other crime goes away too.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
It's not lack of nerve, it's that the question is off topic, and I suspected where you were trying to go with it. You've derailed the discussion which was your obvious intent. I simply didn't take the bait.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Anecdotal but some women who previously voted for Trump:
"I thought man can do better job than woman but now I think even Hillary can do better job"
TheTalkingMule
Distributed Energy Enthusiast
As a Pennsylvania voter I'm VERY interested to see how 2020 goes, especially if Bernie is nominated.
lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
I keep hearing most people are in the middle yet most who participate in on-line discussion seem hell bent in pushing the pendulum further to the extremes. I'm pretty sure what happens if we keep going.
I've never considered news accounts objective reality. The issue for me is incident rate per capita and that is pretty clear. You are right about the reporting. White people are not ordinarily harassed by police, although my sons used to complain about them (and so far as I know they are Anglo.)
I think it was Camus who compared St. Just and De Sad: "St. Just said prove your virtue or go to prison while De Sad replied, open your prisons or prove your virtue." I think above you will find details of an exchange student from Norway who was on their swat team and thus uniquely qualified to carry a weapon in his country. He had to go through two years of college courses in sociology of violence, etc., abnormal psychology, before qualified to carry a weapon. He spoke before our Sacramento Police training facility and was shocked to learn cadets had a few months of all training before issue of a weapon.
There was a recent back to back comparison between a US fatal police shooting of a man carrying a cell phone and a Canadian policeman talking someone down with no violent interaction. As Buddha or Jesus might have said, "It's all in your attitude." Years ago I was with a black girlfriend shopping at an upscale grocery store when an obviously deranged, older black woman, refused to pay for a cart full of groceries and was confronted by three cops at the door. My friend successfully intervened when the cops, frustrated because they could not get the woman out of the store, discussed provoking her into violent action when they could use force to restrain her. The law may be an ass, as Blackstone said, but common sense and emotional IQ can be trained. Not easy these days when we have a poorly toilet trained toddler speaking on a megaphone at the top. That, along with the unaddressed real grievances in this country and elsewhere, is contagious. No wonder we have an opioid epidemic.
I think it was Camus who compared St. Just and De Sad: "St. Just said prove your virtue or go to prison while De Sad replied, open your prisons or prove your virtue." I think above you will find details of an exchange student from Norway who was on their swat team and thus uniquely qualified to carry a weapon in his country. He had to go through two years of college courses in sociology of violence, etc., abnormal psychology, before qualified to carry a weapon. He spoke before our Sacramento Police training facility and was shocked to learn cadets had a few months of all training before issue of a weapon.
There was a recent back to back comparison between a US fatal police shooting of a man carrying a cell phone and a Canadian policeman talking someone down with no violent interaction. As Buddha or Jesus might have said, "It's all in your attitude." Years ago I was with a black girlfriend shopping at an upscale grocery store when an obviously deranged, older black woman, refused to pay for a cart full of groceries and was confronted by three cops at the door. My friend successfully intervened when the cops, frustrated because they could not get the woman out of the store, discussed provoking her into violent action when they could use force to restrain her. The law may be an ass, as Blackstone said, but common sense and emotional IQ can be trained. Not easy these days when we have a poorly toilet trained toddler speaking on a megaphone at the top. That, along with the unaddressed real grievances in this country and elsewhere, is contagious. No wonder we have an opioid epidemic.
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