miss demeanor
Member
Lol fair enough!Low efficiency = you did have fun -> Not bad.
High efficiencyyou did’nt have that fun -> Not that good
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MASTER THREAD: 2021 Model 3 - Charge data, battery discussion etc
- Thread starter EV Promoter
- Start date
I gave up. Repeated texts from Tesla saying "Your car is ready for delivery" and the prospect of spending 2+ months with NO car, and having to go back to a fossil, made me decide to jump onto the Tesla merry-go-round right now and take delivery of my new Model 3 next week on Sep 24th. It'll be the old LG battery.
I would be surprised if the UK got the new LG batteries this year as the Tesla UK website still says 360 miles when the European sites say 380 with December delivery. I am guessing that the UK Model 3s with new batteries will arrive in late December at the earliest but more likely to be next year. I'm basing this on a conversation I had with Tesla where they confirmed there will be no deliveries in October with the next ship expected to arrive in November - and those cars will surely have the old LG battery, because the website still says 360 miles.
If I had another car to drive I'd probably have held on but if it's really just 20 miles difference then I really won't care. However, if the supercharging on this one sucks then I will definitely have buyer's remorse. The supercharging on my 2019 SR+ was fantastic and I'm expecting better from a 2021 LR with bigger battery...
I would be surprised if the UK got the new LG batteries this year as the Tesla UK website still says 360 miles when the European sites say 380 with December delivery. I am guessing that the UK Model 3s with new batteries will arrive in late December at the earliest but more likely to be next year. I'm basing this on a conversation I had with Tesla where they confirmed there will be no deliveries in October with the next ship expected to arrive in November - and those cars will surely have the old LG battery, because the website still says 360 miles.
If I had another car to drive I'd probably have held on but if it's really just 20 miles difference then I really won't care. However, if the supercharging on this one sucks then I will definitely have buyer's remorse. The supercharging on my 2019 SR+ was fantastic and I'm expecting better from a 2021 LR with bigger battery...
Do you mean an SR+? Or Performance with LG battery? I don’t think Performance with LFP battery has ever been seen or proposed.
No LFP in M3P
At the moment only the Panasonic NCA 2170L 82kWh battery is used. I think it is only that battery that is approved with the Performance.
I think there was some guessing tgat the new LG 82kWh battery could be used. I think some refered that battery to be a NCMA, but I think it is a regular NMC( LG INR M50).
Candleflame
Active Member
i find that all a bit bizarre. given how degradation resistant the iron batteries are and how every model 3 P quickly has 10-15% degradation Id honestly rather have a 70kwh battery than a 83kwh battery.
That might be another question.
The LFP batteries have much lower power density per volume so the car could not be a long range per definition. I also think that the power density per weight is much lower resulting in a car that maybe do not fit the ”Performance” definition. A long range Performance without the long range and the performance would….
The degradation might not be real degradation, it could be a BMS issue or it could be that the capacity origins way lower than the marked 82.1kWh size. We really do knot know.
2170L is a low cobalt battery and cobalt is among other thibgs needed for longelivery(also performance from the battery side) as I understand it. We might need to weight and see.
Not all M3P have 10-15% degradation.
I think 10% could be seen on the ’19 an maybe some ’20 but 15% is rare?
My ’21 M3P with the 82kWh batt has a NFP of 81.0kWh, thats 1.3% degradation if you do the math from 82.1kWh which insnt maybe the starting point we should use. Highest NFP over time was 81.4kWh so in that case Ive lost 0.5%. 9 months and 23000km.
Candleflame
Active Member
That might be another question.
The LFP batteries have much lower power density per volume so the car could not be a long range per definition. I also think that the power density per weight is much lower resulting in a car that maybe do not fit the ”Performance” definition. A long range Performance without the long range and the performance would….
The degradation might not be real degradation, it could be a BMS issue or it could be that the capacity origins way lower than the marked 82.1kWh size. We really do knot know.
2170L is a low cobalt battery and cobalt is among other thibgs needed for longelivery(also performance from the battery side) as I understand it. We might need to weight and see.
Not all M3P have 10-15% degradation.
I think 10% could be seen on the ’19 an maybe some ’20 but 15% is rare?
My ’21 M3P with the 82kWh batt has a NFP of 81.0kWh, thats 1.3% degradation if you do the math from 82.1kWh which insnt maybe the starting point we should use. Highest NFP over time was 81.4kWh so in that case Ive lost 0.5%. 9 months and 23000km.
it is true degradation. range restoration is for a large part a myth.
The average degradation for a 2 year old M3P with 40k kms on teslafi is 462km which corresponds to roughly 69.5 to 70kwh. (around 13% degradation)
I have 68.4kwh on my car and am just below average.
A few weeks ago, I bought my first Tesla — a Model 3 Standard Range Plus with LFP battery.
I know there is a ton of info about the other battery, but are there currently any recommendations on maintenance for an LFP battery? Specifically, how often to charge, whether to charge to 100%, not letting it get below a certain percentage, whether Supercharging usage degrades the battery, etc.
I'm asking because even though I just bought the car, I'm only getting about a 211 mile range (down from the 253 EPA range I was expecting) and I wanted to maximize the battery.
I know there is a ton of info about the other battery, but are there currently any recommendations on maintenance for an LFP battery? Specifically, how often to charge, whether to charge to 100%, not letting it get below a certain percentage, whether Supercharging usage degrades the battery, etc.
I'm asking because even though I just bought the car, I'm only getting about a 211 mile range (down from the 253 EPA range I was expecting) and I wanted to maximize the battery.
Absolutely.
I thought you mainly refered to the new 2170L, which I have. A lot of these cars shows very low NFP, despite beeing more or leds new. There might be an BMS calibration issue with these(new chemistry)
As for older ones I’m with you @ 100%.
The capacity when new was 77.8 kWh (full pack when new) and the EPA measurements points to that size?
69.5/77.8 = 10.7 % ?
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
There are SMT captures showing above 78kWh for new vehicles for 2019. And EPA data (easy to look up at Basic Search | Document Index System | US EPA) shows consistently about 79.5kWh, with some small variation on each test article, from year to year, (it’s never been clear what is the reason for the BMS/EPA discrepancy - whether it is “different” kWh, or whether the BMS estimate is conservative and when pushed you’ll get another ~1kWh out of the pack).
I think when calculating capacity loss using the methods available here, it's reasonable to assume 78kWh as the starting point for 2018-2020 (note this number is not applicable to many 2021 vehicles, the subject of this thread...), unless your vehicle did not have full rated range when new (rare, but did happen).
Could you possibly make a print screen from the teslafi battery degradation that also show the number of cars involved in that data and post, or mess me ? (I would like it for another forum stuff.
I can only see other 2021 M3P, as mine.
Oki, copy! Im only about nine months old when it comes to this( started here when waiting for my first tesla less then one year ago).
I only checked the 2021 year of Model 3 LR and I think they got about 77.6 kwh from the battery( out of memory).
If the old 2170 had a capacity of 79.5, then it wasnt that much more capacity in the 2170L ?
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
78.6kWh for the early 2021, non-Performance (as we know it now has the 2170L battery - in the US, Europe much more complicated, there are 100 pages in this thread - so this value is no longer applicable). Performance 2021 was 80.8kWh.
Yes, this 78.6kWh is a lower value than the earlier 2018-2020 vehicles measured values, by about 1kWh. But it seems that the BMS reported values from various users here were similar to the 2018-2020 vehicles (around 78kWh when new for the early 2170C LR non-Performance vehicles). In EPA testing, there can be variability from test article to test article - because it all depends on when the vehicle shuts down during the test.
I would not stress much about 1kWh differences for a single vehicle. For this sort of thing, have to look at a whole bunch of vehicles and see what the average is, to understand what is the target energy available.
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Candleflame
Active Member
oh really? i can pick whether to see 2018 2019 or 2020 or 2021?
ill attach it when i go back home.
Candleflame
Active Member
Interesting i cant pick 2021 anymore. Just 2020 and 2019. Probably due to above. 2018 not either for some reason.
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