MASTER THREAD: Comprehensive Road-Course Modification Guide — Optimizing the 3 for the track

[LP99]

Exactly. Even when the drive units are hot and power is reduced, these cars still lap faster than most other cars on any track day I've been to and the spectators won't see much of a difference either.

We can look at numbers all day long and complain about not having as much power on lap 10 as lap 1, but as long as there is some sort of equivalency the racing will still be good.

Yes, but as I told you, overheating is a more serious variable .. and I will do everything to "eliminate" it. There are many cases on the track where one car overheats more than another and if this causes a car to be overheated even just one lap earlier than the others in that lap it loses 2 seconds and loses the race. It is true that it can be part of the strategy, but it would become too important in relation to speed.

Also I think no one has tried to do 5 or 6 laps with the "red" battery, and even in this case there could be very important limitations at some point, it seems that someone has had serious problems with the oil boiling in that situation .

We are obviously doing these tests!

 

[Dangerous Fish]

Yes, but as I told you, overheating is a more serious variable .. and I will do everything to "eliminate" it. There are many cases on the track where one car overheats more than another and if this causes a car to be overheated even just one lap earlier than the others in that lap it loses 2 seconds and loses the race. It is true that it can be part of the strategy, but it would become too important in relation to speed.

Also I think no one has tried to do 5 or 6 laps with the "red" battery, and even in this case there could be very important limitations at some point, it seems that someone has had serious problems with the oil boiling in that situation .

We are obviously doing these tests!

I think you need to do the tests based on your expectations. You haven't revealed the format of your races or whether you are supplying the cars etc. etc. As you know, this will all make a big difference to the viability of using Model 3s in a race series.

Anyway, where's that MPP data?

 

[Dangerous Fish]

Can anyone else post SMT logs that start from ambient to overheating event?

Rear may be producing more power, but motor is different type to front. Could that explain it?

 

[MasterC17]

Can anyone else post SMT logs that start from ambient to overheating event?

My data indicates the same - the front drive unit oil temperature does get hotter than the rear. Anywhere from 0-7 degrees C depending on the session.

 

[Mash]

While preparing for the Nurburgring run (praying for the weather and parts delivery), we casually updated rear lower control arm with Tom Schirmer himself adapting BMW M3 bushing within 2 hours. I really hope to have more stable braking from that one.

In the meantime we found that eccentric bolt of toe arm was installed wrong and front ground strap was never bolted in from the factory.

 

[Mash]

My data indicates the same - the front drive unit oil temperature does get hotter than the rear. Anywhere from 0-7 degrees C depending on the session.

In this log I see that front oil temperature is lower, while front stator is much higher. Something is wrong here. Front drive has vastly more airflow around due to the radiator fan. But rear drive unit gets coolant first. Anyway, I have a feeling that smt data is mixed up

 

[Mash]

Rear may be producing more power, but motor is different type to front. Could that explain it?

It should explain opposite - front type is more energy efficient.

 

[mattack4000]

Mattak, for example, laps 1, 2, 4 and 6 were all done with the "green" battery in the track mode?
If you can tell, what track were you on?

Once you get the car hot, the battery will go from green to orange in a matter of turns. Unless you have some sort of cooling, it doesn't matter. I can half throttle it around the track and it will get hot seconds after I get on it.

I can start a session at 50% SOC. Even with a cold battery, it will be slower than me having 90 or 80%. You are talking about a good 20-40HP minimum. How are you making that up all things equal?

 

[LP99]

My data indicates the same - the front drive unit oil temperature does get hotter than the rear. Anywhere from 0-7 degrees C depending on the session.

Where do you see the oil temperature? With "Scan My Tesla" only the rotor temperature is indicated if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Dangerous Fish]

It should explain opposite - front type is more energy efficient.

I have read that heat efficiency in induction motors (front) is worse than permanent magnet motors (rear).

If this is true and the front motor does heat up more, something else to consider in terms of overall stator temperature is the setting used in track mode for front/rear balance. If I dial in 30/70 F/R maybe I can do more laps without the battery graphic turning red than someone dialling in 50/50, because around corners I'm using the front motor less.

 

[Adrian Cockcroft]

I decided to noodle around with the telemetry file and wrote some initial code in R that processes it into a summary and splits the data into laps. Posted it on GitHub in case anyone else finds it useful or wants to extend it.

adrianco/r-tesla-telemetry

Here's a summary of my first full session on a hot day at Laguna Seca, I wasn't pushing hard, was following a 911 around the track and wanted to see how much power it used and how hot everything got. The battery overheated after several laps and I backed off.

 

[LP99]

I decided to noodle around with the telemetry file and wrote some initial code in R that processes it into a summary and splits the data into laps. Posted it on GitHub in case anyone else finds it useful or wants to extend it.

adrianco/r-tesla-telemetry

Here's a summary of my first full session on a hot day at Laguna Seca, I wasn't pushing hard, was following a 911 around the track and wanted to see how much power it used and how hot everything got. The battery overheated after several laps and I backed off.

View attachment 603010

Of course, since you weren't pushing, it's hard to understand exactly but your data is very useful.

At maximum power level the decrease is minimal between lap 1 and lap 5, even with a 20% less SOC with the "battery" on green.

Even once it turns Red, albeit much lower, the maximum power appears to be constant.

One question: on the straight were you pushing or did you not use the full throttle?

 

[Dangerous Fish]

I decided to noodle around with the telemetry file and wrote some initial code in R that processes it into a summary and splits the data into laps. Posted it on GitHub in case anyone else finds it useful or wants to extend it.

adrianco/r-tesla-telemetry

Here's a summary of my first full session on a hot day at Laguna Seca, I wasn't pushing hard, was following a 911 around the track and wanted to see how much power it used and how hot everything got. The battery overheated after several laps and I backed off.

View attachment 603010

Very useful, thank you for doing that. I'll try it and process some of my data.

It would also be relevant to post your track mode settings (F/R balance, SC, regen).

 

[LP99]

Very useful, thank you for doing that. I'll try it and process some of my data.

It would also be relevant to post your track mode settings (F/R balance, SC, regen).

So .. we are also waiting for your data now ..

 

[Dangerous Fish]

So .. we are also waiting for your data now ..

OK I got it working. I'm not great with some of these github languages
This is the same session I posted the SMT graph from a few posts back. The battery graphic changed very quickly from green to red halfway through lap 8 and then I slowed and pressed stop, so the 1:26 laptime can be ignored. But it shows that for the first 7 laps, the car was performing well.

It's that sudden 'maxBattery temp" change from 71-102% I can't relate to the SMT data. I don't see any other temperature in the SMT data which leaps up by that amount around that time.

 

[LP99]

OK I got it working. I'm not great with some of these github languages
This is the same session I posted the SMT graph from a few posts back. The battery graphic changed very quickly from green to red halfway through lap 8 and then I slowed and pressed stop, so the 1:26 laptime can be ignored. But it shows that for the first 7 laps, the car was performing well.

num seconds minutes maxMph maxKW maxBhp startChargePct
1 58.393 0:58.393 119 386 517 76
2 57.274 0:57.274 120 390 523 72
3 59.24 0:59.240 119 384 516 68
4 57.223 0:57.223 117 384 515 65
5 57.696 0:58.696 119 382 512 62
6 59.742 0:60.742 118 370 496 58
7 57.278 0:57.278 116 367 492 55
8 86.274 1:26.274 112 207 278 51
maxBrakeTempPct maxFrontInverter maxRearInverter maxBatteryTemp
1 37 66 79 67
2 54 69 81 67
3 66 71 82 67
4 67 71 81 67
5 72 71 82 71
6 74 72 82 71
7 74 74 83 102
8 73 74 83 102

It's that sudden 'maxBattery temp" change from 71-102% I can't relate to the SMT data. I don't see any other temperature in the SMT data which leaps up by that amount around that time.

Can you send me the full CSV?

 

[LP99]

OK I got it working. I'm not great with some of these github languages
This is the same session I posted the SMT graph from a few posts back. The battery graphic changed very quickly from green to red halfway through lap 8 and then I slowed and pressed stop, so the 1:26 laptime can be ignored. But it shows that for the first 7 laps, the car was performing well.

View attachment 603133

It's that sudden 'maxBattery temp" change from 71-102% I can't relate to the SMT data. I don't see any other temperature in the SMT data which leaps up by that amount around that time.

Do you also have SMT data available?

 

[Dangerous Fish]

Also I think no one has tried to do 5 or 6 laps with the "red" battery, and even in this case there could be very important limitations at some point, it seems that someone has had serious problems with the oil boiling in that situation .

Can you provide more detail on that? I think it's true that most of here instinctively slow down when we see the battery turn red and I've only done 2 or 3 laps after the battery is red but have you read of someone causing damage by continuing after that?

 

[LP99]

Can you provide more detail on that? I think it's true that most of here instinctively slow down when we see the battery turn red and I've only done 2 or 3 laps after the battery is red but have you read of someone causing damage by continuing after that?

I only heard in a video .. I have no other details.

 

[mattack4000]

It was down 15mph, I don’t think it was running hard at all. Battery usage was also low and the times were way off.

Of course, since you weren't pushing, it's hard to understand exactly but your data is very useful.

At maximum power level the decrease is minimal between lap 1 and lap 5, even with a 20% less SOC with the "battery" on green.

Even once it turns Red, albeit much lower, the maximum power appears to be constant.

One question: on the straight were you pushing or did you not use the full throttle?