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MASTER THREAD: Powering house or other things with Model 3
- Thread starter Vines
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- powerwall solar home
He can feed the power back onto the section of the grid that was disconnected and power everyone's homes.
israndy
Supercharger Hunter
To the OP, if you were sitting there in the dark and had a car with tons of charge in the driveway, why not just turn on the headlights?
I went to a presentation at my local electric car club where they spoke about the ability of the Model 3's charger hardware to act backwards, to convert the battery power into usable 240/120v. It would require a box plugged into the charge port on the car with outlets on it, and a LOT of software changes on the Tesla but there isn't anything in the hardware that would keep you from having 10kW of power that you could plug your devices into.
I would LOVE the ability to tow a trailer and then plug it into the car overnight to run the appliances. To run high power things from the car, like power tools. Perhaps even run a cord to power the fridge and some lights during a blackout. I think it would be too expensive to wire the house so the car could act as a backup generator for those rare occasions that the power goes out, but if I lived somewhere that that happens a lot perhaps even that could be done. Flip an interlocked breaker that disconnects the grid and connects to a cord that goes into the Tesla. Not much in my house uses that much power, even in combination. Maybe the hot tub and the oven, I'd have to interlock all those 240v circuits out too.
I went to a presentation at my local electric car club where they spoke about the ability of the Model 3's charger hardware to act backwards, to convert the battery power into usable 240/120v. It would require a box plugged into the charge port on the car with outlets on it, and a LOT of software changes on the Tesla but there isn't anything in the hardware that would keep you from having 10kW of power that you could plug your devices into.
I would LOVE the ability to tow a trailer and then plug it into the car overnight to run the appliances. To run high power things from the car, like power tools. Perhaps even run a cord to power the fridge and some lights during a blackout. I think it would be too expensive to wire the house so the car could act as a backup generator for those rare occasions that the power goes out, but if I lived somewhere that that happens a lot perhaps even that could be done. Flip an interlocked breaker that disconnects the grid and connects to a cord that goes into the Tesla. Not much in my house uses that much power, even in combination. Maybe the hot tub and the oven, I'd have to interlock all those 240v circuits out too.
PittCaleb
Member
I don't understand the issue here. During Hurricane/Super Storm Sandy, I used a power inverter on my SUV to power my sump pump and some lights. I'd run off the car (12v) battery for a while, then turn it on to recharge, etc.
I would think one could do this off the Tesla without the need to run your car in the storm. Obviously, if you have no power for an extended period of time, you may have difficulty getting to a charger when the time comes.
So the question is can you do this on a Tesla without risking any negatives. I know you can do this with a regular 12v battery and recharging it with a big V-6 periodically. And for some of us, simply powering the sump pump can be a life saver!
I would think one could do this off the Tesla without the need to run your car in the storm. Obviously, if you have no power for an extended period of time, you may have difficulty getting to a charger when the time comes.
So the question is can you do this on a Tesla without risking any negatives. I know you can do this with a regular 12v battery and recharging it with a big V-6 periodically. And for some of us, simply powering the sump pump can be a life saver!
Im not sure if most of you are aware but the OP in this thread (@Vines ), actually professionally installs solar and powerwalls. I dont believe he needs advice about the usability or viability of powerwalls etc. It appears to me he had a specific question about the model 3 and 12 volt batteries (which I can not not answer).
He knows about powerwalls and such though, no need to advise someone who installs them for a living about them.
He knows about powerwalls and such though, no need to advise someone who installs them for a living about them.
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Uncle Paul
Well-Known Member
I understand that the new Pickup Truck will have this capability. Power take off for 120/240V. Intended as jobsite power, but could also supply power to your home when necessary.
Most likely will not power your home directly, like a generator, but allow you to run extension cords to power lights/computers and stuff. Not for airconditioning or refrigeratiors, but could easily power a gas furnance.
Most likely will not power your home directly, like a generator, but allow you to run extension cords to power lights/computers and stuff. Not for airconditioning or refrigeratiors, but could easily power a gas furnance.
Ok OP, do what I did.
I bought a 26500 MAH battery pack from Anker for $79 on sale.
Then I bought 3 LED rechargeable lanterns with 4000mah ($30 each). I was able to pass 2 days of no electricity in SoCal with this. I ended up charging the 26500 battery pack at work but the power returned by that time. It beats using the $15k battery in your model 3, and it beats having to buy a power wall that’s several thousand dollars.
For the fridge just get a generator at this point. Way more economical. I’m considering a generator if these wind induced power outage continues for more than 3 days out here in California. My food didn’t go bad after 2 days. Ice in the fridge was still solidly cold and not melted.
I bought a 26500 MAH battery pack from Anker for $79 on sale.
Then I bought 3 LED rechargeable lanterns with 4000mah ($30 each). I was able to pass 2 days of no electricity in SoCal with this. I ended up charging the 26500 battery pack at work but the power returned by that time. It beats using the $15k battery in your model 3, and it beats having to buy a power wall that’s several thousand dollars.
For the fridge just get a generator at this point. Way more economical. I’m considering a generator if these wind induced power outage continues for more than 3 days out here in California. My food didn’t go bad after 2 days. Ice in the fridge was still solidly cold and not melted.
False. Different cell technology, different hardware...
From a review: "The Powerwall 2 uses a lithium nickel-manganese-cobalt (NMC) cell chemistry developed in collaboration with Panasonic as the battery cells are similar to the batteries used in the Tesla electric vehicles. The unit features an integrated battery management systems (BMS), liquid thermal management, and DC-AC inverter/charger."
Do you really think Tesla would be foolish enough to strike off in a new direction for this application? Of course not. They want to propagate what they have developed into a different market. Do the cells used in the powerwall have, perhaps, a different separator, or different electrolyte or a different ratio of lithium to the transition metals in order to better match the requirements of a backup system? Perhaps. Can you take the liquid cooling system from a Model X or 3 and install it in the powerwall? No. Are there common parts? Very probably. So clearly it is indeed the same technology.
Do you really think Tesla would be foolish enough to strike off in a new direction for this application? Of course not. They want to propagate what they have developed into a different market. Do the cells used in the powerwall have, perhaps, a different separator, or different electrolyte or a different ratio of lithium to the transition metals in order to better match the requirements of a backup system? Perhaps. Can you take the liquid cooling system from a Model X or 3 and install it in the powerwall? No. Are there common parts? Very probably. So clearly it is indeed the same technology.
I see Energy cells and M3 cells everyday...they're different.
The 'liquid cooling system' in a Model X and a Model 3 are totally different.
There are no common parts between between the Energy products line and the Model 3 module/battery system.
Not sure what it is that you're specifically referring to...but I'll say this. The Powerwall, Powerpack, etc Energy products do not share common parts with 3/S/X. Different purposes, different tasks, different needs. Just because an engineer designed a cooling system that works in a vehicle battery pack, doesn't mean that it translates to a stationary storage product. The parameters of what needs to happen when and why are so drastically different. If it could work, and the physical size works, and all the costs work, then yeah, theoretically you could use the same parts. But not in this case. I know.
So you guys are saying ,for example, that Powerwall batteries do not use NMC chemistry? What chemistry do they use then?
You are saying that the Tesla cars use FET's in H-bridge configuration for inverters and rectifiers but use something else in the Powerwalls? What technology do they use?
You are saying that the Tesla cars use FET's in H-bridge configuration for inverters and rectifiers but use something else in the Powerwalls? What technology do they use?
Hes likely not going to be able to tell you, as he has inside knowledge of the subject based on employment but likely can not share specific details.
Well he could at least say "Yes, that review is incorrect". I don't think Tesla keeps their cathode chemistry secret at the level of what elements are used. Exactly what the proportions are, certainly.
In any case, to suppose that Tesla would develop technology for the cars and not take advantage of that in a similar product is so absurd as to not merit further attention.
In any case, to suppose that Tesla would develop technology for the cars and not take advantage of that in a similar product is so absurd as to not merit further attention.
"similar" is not what you said, though.
Tesla has announced before publicly that they use a different formulation for the Powerwall cells, because their use profiles are different, so they need to prioritize different strengths and weaknesses.
Read #45. It is, of course, recognized and expected that the designs will be "tuned" for the specifics of the application but the bloody batteries are lithium ion batteries and the box also contains inverters, a BMS and a liquid cooling system. They are designed to accept power from one source, store it in the battery and deliver it back to a load. This is exactly what the car does and it uses the "same" technologies to do it. This is what Tesla does. Develop technologies to do these things. If you want to argue that the technology is not the same because they use IGBPT's in the powerwall (not saying that they do) and SiC FETs in the Model 3 (that they do do) that's your prerogative. I hope people with a broader perspective (i.e. those who are familiar with how engineering companies work) will understand what I am saying.
If you want to say that server farms and smart watches use the "same" hardware because it's just processors and memory, that is your prerogative as well.
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